Changing stems and estimating new saddle tip to bar "reach"

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Dude needs to post a picture of the ride... 10 cm stem is fairly short... and since he wants to do do such a big change makes me wonder how the fit and the bike is set.

Wrong

It's only fairly short if it's the wrong size.

[ultraman6970]

Well.. now you know the size of the bikes he was trying to compare.. we did not know about that... right ?

Originally Posted by charliedid

Wrong

It's only fairly short if it's the wrong size.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Well.. now you know the size of the bikes he was trying to compare.. we did not know about that... right ?

You're predisposed to believing that someone riding a 10cm stem is either on the wrong size bike or riding too short of a stem. I am not...

Carry on! :-)

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

Well, I "think" I know what I am doing but believe me, reading the forum keeps making me just a little more dangerous in my presumed knowledge. And it's always good to ask since everyone sees things differently.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

My saddle is 75.0 with 7.5cm setback
Saddle tip to bar is 56.0-57.0 at 7.5-8.0cm bar drop.

I am looking at a stock "endurance geo" cannondale synapse eTT 56.1 that is a little taller and a little shorter than my current set ups.

The frame would ship with the stem in the max height position which is 30mm spacers on top of a 25mm cone spacer.

With my saddle in the correct place and the bar maxed upwards as shipped, the saddle tip to bar is 53.5 and the bar drop is 2cm based on the -6dx100 stock stem.

That's why I want to take out spacers and use a
1) 110/120 stem to get my saddle tip to bar reach further by about 25mm to 56.0
and
2) -17d/-20d to increase my bar drop from 2cm to at least 6cm.

the frame angles are normal 73.0 HTA and 73.5 STA
None of the calculators let me estimate this bar reach measure but my guess is like tuscanyswe asserts. I could just add the linear measure to the reach diagonal and be close.

I'll probably order both a -20dx110 and a -20dx120 fizik stem from CC so I can meaure in person and easily return it.

thanks also for your comments about the cables Dave. It's nice to see you back posting as you had helped me a lot with my Campy questions when I first joined the forum.

you wanna borrow a -17 x 120 Ritchey? I have a few I can lend you

M

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Your 3pm post explained everything a lot better for me.. I would wait till you get the ride and test.because some frames likes the rider seated in another place sometimes. I know common sense tells you the same contact points but had a few frames already that did not like me seated in the correct places, for example my C50 likes me seated like 5 mm further back than any other bike. Other ones dont care...

Originally Posted by Gummee

you wanna borrow a -17 x 120 Ritchey? I have a few I can lend youM

In contemplating this purchase I'v concluded I am boxing myself in by trying to find a way to make the bike fit but retain the max spacer stack in consideration of future resale.

That thought led me down a -20d x 110/120 path which seems flawed.

As many of you have alluded, the best move is to install my saddle of preference, then take the existing 30mm spacers under the stock stem and put them on top. Now let's see where I am at AND as Ultra says, go ride it.

And then be like Ryun and just cut the steerer. period.

Of course the bar may have a different reach. The 9120 hoods seem to have greater reach from my C10/R10, C11 or Force (this would be first time on shimano since 9v ultegra triple)

If I end up a little shorter and a little higher on this frame that would be ok. I't going to see more winter/wet miles than summer so it might be of benefit to have a less aggressive (for me at least) position

PS. Thank you very much for the offer to try a -17d x 120. I may f/up with you on that but for now I'll flail away using what I have to get a closer idea of where I need to go.

[one60]

I'd try using the free version of bikecad. It allows you to put in the frame angles and HT, saddle dimensions etc and will generate stack/reach and also saddle to bars etc.

[Ralph]

Another way to look at it.....You are buying (on purpose) a tall head tube somewhat shorter top tube frame. Designed for comfort and long hours on the bike......an "endurance" bike. Why not set it up to be just that? Use a stem a tad shorter than your max performance bike. Run the bars a tad taller, etc. If you want longer and lower from a bike designed to be ridden taller and shorter.....maybe you are buying wrong frame. Just playing advocate here.

Personally....I keep a triple crank bike set up just that way. It has a relatively tall head tube. At first....I tried to set it up same dimensions as the Cannondale CAAD 10 (2.5" or so drop) double I also really like and ride at lot....with groups. Then I realized it was designed to be a different kind of bike. So shortened up the stem one size, put 10 MM spacers back under the stem, and set it up to use the way it was designed and intended. I really enjoy that bike now for just riding by myself. It doesn't matter if I'm riding with slightly less drop (still about 2").

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Another way to look at it.....You are buying (on purpose) a tall head tube somewhat shorter top tube frame. Designed for comfort and long hours on the bike......an "endurance" bike. Why not set it up to be just that? Use a stem a tad shorter than your max performance bike. Run the bars a tad taller, etc. If you want longer and lower from a bike designed to be ridden taller and shorter.....maybe you are buying wrong frame. Just playing advocate here.

Personally....I keep a triple crank bike set up just that way. It has a relatively tall head tube. At first....I tried to set it up same dimensions as the Cannondale CAAD 10 (2.5" or so drop) double I also really like and ride at lot....with groups. Then I realized it was designed to be a different kind of bike. So shortened up the stem one size, put 10 MM spacers back under the stem, and set it up to use the way it was designed and intended. I really enjoy that bike now for just riding by myself. It doesn't matter if I'm riding with slightly less drop (still about 2").

IDK about the OP, but my body seems to like a very similar position across all my different bikes. Get out of a narrow window of adjustment, things don't feel right

YRMV as with all things

M

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Another way to look at it.....You are buying (on purpose) a tall head tube somewhat shorter top tube frame. Designed for comfort and long hours on the bike......an "endurance" bike. Why not set it up to be just that? Use a stem a tad shorter than your max performance bike. Run the bars a tad taller, etc. If you want longer and lower from a bike designed to be ridden taller and shorter.....maybe you are buying wrong frame. Just playing advocate here.

Personally....I keep a triple crank bike set up just that way. It has a relatively tall head tube. At first....I tried to set it up same dimensions as the Cannondale CAAD 10 (2.5" or so drop) double I also really like and ride at lot....with groups. Then I realized it was designed to be a different kind of bike. So shortened up the stem one size, put 10 MM spacers back under the stem, and set it up to use the way it was designed and intended. I really enjoy that bike now for just riding by myself. It doesn't matter if I'm riding with slightly less drop (still about 2").

Originally Posted by Gummee

IDK about the OP, but my body seems to like a very similar position across all my different bikes. Get out of a narrow window of adjustment, things don't feel right. YRMV as with all things
M

> am looking for a road (not gravel) / carbon / disc / mech (to lower the price) / full fender capability / production model from big brand
as you might expect, the want for full fenders is responded to with here's your endurance geo. fortunately a synapse doesnt swing as far to the tall headtube upright short position - just 5mm longer CS/WB and 2cm taller HT vs a supersix EVO - as a roubaix or domane

> That's the nunace. I set my CX with a bit less setback and drop (like 1cm less). I suppose that is within the fit window of most of us. as you noted when reach and drop are much much different it just doesn't feel right. maybe I should take the pea out from under my mattress and let the bike reveal itself

[54ny77]

As much as I have tried using those calculators when setting up a new bike, I've always found my best approach is buy two stems that might work, install one, see if it feels good for a week or so of consistent riding.
If yes, then it's a keeper. If not, try the other. And tinker with spacers in small increments on each stem use.

For example, I have a Parlee that the calculator said a 110 with a couple of specific spacers would do the trick. I ended up buying a 120 and it rides just wonderfully, so much more comfy and stable. You've been around awhile, trust your gut!

[Ralph]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

> am looking for a road (not gravel) / carbon / disc / mech (to lower the price) / full fender capability / production model from big brand
as you might expect, the want for full fenders is responded to with here's your endurance geo. fortunately a synapse doesnt swing as far to the tall headtube upright short position - just 5mm longer CS/WB and 2cm taller HT vs a supersix EVO - as a roubaix or domane

> That's the nunace. I set my CX with a bit less setback and drop (like 1cm less). I suppose that is within the fit window of most of us. as you noted when reach and drop are much much different it just doesn't feel right. maybe I should take the pea out from under my mattress and let the bike reveal itself

Just offering another way to consider it. Not meaning to come off as being critical. I'm a big fan of the Synapse. A lot of frame for the money, and a great design for most riding.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Just offering another way to consider it. Not meaning to come off as being critical. I'm a big fan of the Synapse. A lot of frame for the money, and a great design for most riding.

not interpreted that way at all ralph and I thank you for your comments. we might see the same thing differently, hence all opinion welcome. otherwise, why ask anything on the forum?

your point is well taken...it's a balance between same fit on all bike versus letting each one be what they are and enjoy the differences.

and of course, even with the go fast bikes set up "the same", they still feel different. some I feel more on top of others I feel inside of. but all I get that molded to the bike feeling ... where it just feels like you rare pedaling suspended and have the wind blowing what hair I have left