Way OT: water leak/ mold remediation

[stackie]

So, we just finished a very frustrating remodel. Then, the refrigerator/freezer drawer unit water line leaked for three weeks undetected. Didn't realize until saw water damage in under house storage area.

I removed all wet materials in the under house area and put industrial dehumidifier in there for a week. Also ran same industrial dehumidifier in kitchen at recommendation of contractor friends.

Sadly, my engineered hardwood floors show evidence of cupping throughout. So, logically, I must assume water tracked between the hardwood and subfloor throughout. Flooring guy saying to let it be for 6 months and will be fine. Maybe a light sand. He says "do NOT let a mold remediation company come in, they will destroy your entire house". Contractor friends say same thing.

I have called mold remediation companies and they are definitely gloom and doom. I have a few appointments scheduled to have them look and assess.

Seems like the only people who say to go whole hog and destroy are the mold remediation companies. But, of course, they are hammers and all the world is a moldy nail.

Anyone have unbiased experience with this? I'm seriously depressed at thought of starting over from ground zero with remodel.

TIA

Jon

[TDot]

Hey Jon, unfortunately I've dealt with a lot of this. In fact, on three seperate occasions, so here's my experience as objectively as possible:

Hardwood can make a miraculous recovery. Given that engineered hardwood has as its base plywood, it is likely a good candidate to recover, too. In my experience it has always been traditional hardwood, but it has recovered each time.

The industrial dehumidifers will do the bulk of the work so congrats on taking that all-important step. Having done the same on two occasions, I found that running those monsters 24-7 for days on end does work.

In terms of mold, I would need to know more about your home (is it a century home or new build and therefore there's drywall or plaster walls to worry about, etc). However, it sounds like you've mitigated a lot of the potential for mold already.

I would leave the floors for a bit if you can be patient and see if they reward your hard work.

Happy to discuss my experiences more if you like. Sorry that you've had this experience. In one of our flood situations, it was a massive flood in Toronto about a decade ago and the water was actually sewage and so you can imagine the mold and contamination risks. It was a total nightmare but still we managed to get through it. In that instance, everything was gutted for obvious reasons but that was our basement so we only had laminated flooring to rip out which wasn't as much of an investment. My wife was pregnant at the time, so the insurance company took pity on us. Still, I have dreams to this day about floods. I hope that your situation is remediated quickly (pardon the pun).

[TDot]

Sorry, think I missed the point I wanted to make. Based on what you've shared, it doesn't sound like you've got a mold remediation situation on your hands. I don't think you need that service but again, would need more information to offer an opinion based on my experience. Do you have photos of the damage you can share? Only as needed and I am by no means an expert!

[AngryScientist]

Question: What is underneath the engineered hard wood?

I have installed a number of floors now, and the insulation or padding that can go under those type of floors varies a lot. Some look like recycled wool material and probably would soak up water like a sponge. Others are more like a foam.

You caught the problem earlyish. I would also NOT get a mold remediation contractor involved.

I think best bet is to keep the dehumidifiers running and keep a dry environment for a few months and see what happens. Worst case you pull the floor and re-do, and only re-do the portion that is effected. Modern engineered hardwood goes in really easy/quick, in my experience.

[robt57]

If the wood is still cupped, the bottom is still wet. Or at least wetter than the top surface, which can evap the moisture inti the air. VS the bottom sitting on sub-floor that is undoubtedly wet. Or at least wetter than the top surface.

That 'wet' between floor and sub floor is not going to dry out fast, period.

Mold is spores that are thriving due to relative humidity above 60ish percent. Abated with very dry and or bleach..

[Tandem Rider]

I would run the dehumidifiers until the moisture content of the floors is down to what it is in the rest of the house. Wood absorbs moisture like a sponge and will cup away from the "wet" side, that will help you determine when to proceed. You might need to invest in a moisture meter to keep tabs on the progress.

Pulling the baseboards in the area might help with the drying, just an idea.

Do not succumb to letting the mold remediation companies set foot inside your home, they will arrive with wrecking bars and sawzalls and EVERYTHING is now fair game.

[Jcgill]

Are you seeing any evidence of mold?

As long as you are removing the water and working to dry the wood mold should not form.
If mold does form you can likely spray it with bleach or a chemical in a cheap Home Depot pump sprayer to treat it yourself.

I have seen several new construction homes where the basement sat for a month or 2 with a few inches of water due to the power not being run to the home and the sump pump not running….then the underside of the subfloor and joists grow mold. The builders have a laborer put on a tyvek suit, mask and take a $15 Home Depot pump sprayer down there and spray away and it fixes it without any problems down the road. These homes had literal fur on the floor joists.

[NHAero]

Building engineer and occasional forensic guy here -
I think it's unlikely that there is a serious mold issue from your description. What is the subfloor, boards, plywood, or OSB? OSB holds on to water the longest. The hardwood is presumably finished, so drying upward via vapor diffusion is slow.

If it were my place I would keep an eye (nose, really!) on the area where the leak was. Do I smell mold? If it's under the fridge, I might pull the fridge in a month an use a hole saw to pull a couple of plugs of wood out where they won't show (then when finally done glue them back in) so you can actually see the condition of th subfloor.

Is the cupping gone and the wood has recovered 100%?

[stackie]

House is 13 years old.

Floor is engineered hardwood, 6 mil oak on a multilayer ply.

There is a moisture barrier between floor and subfloor but with holes cut in it every 3-4 feet for glue application. I know, weird and doesn't make sense, but I didn't have detailed conversation with flooring guy as he came highly recommended from a friend, who happens to be in the hardwood flooring sales business. In fact, he sourced the wood for us.

Subfloor is 3/4 inch plywood.

I do see green mold on subfloor below house. That is accessible and easy to treat with a biocide such as Concrobium.

There is mold on edge of drywall where refrigerator/freezer unit pulled. Probably extends behind the cabinets on either side of the space for unit.

Mold remediation guy came yesterday and his moisture meter was reading 20-25% moisture for a radius of about 6 feet from the leak and drops off precipitously from there to about 5-6%. My Klein moisture meter (pin less also) says 15% right by leak but only 10-12% after 6 feet. Interestingly, my Klein shows 9-10% throughout entire floor on this level.

I've been considering cutting holes (say 2 inch hole saw) through floor under the cabinets to allow ventilation into that space.

But, I don't see how to remediate the drywall behind cabinets without removing.

I'm thinking maybe a "surgical" removal of the cabinets adjacent to leak leaving the countertop in place. Pull that drywall and some flooring in that area. I'm comfortable with that. I just don't want it to snowball into, "Oh, the floors still wet at this edge, we need to go further and next thing the whole house is down to studs again.

Jon

[zennmotion]

To mitigate a serious basement mold problem from a leaking foundation (another subject) in preparation for a remodel-conversion to a mini living unit, a contractor recommended scrubbing everything down with Concrobium where mold was visible or likely. This meant the bottom 12 inches or so of drywall that wasn't too bad to tear out, and the bottom studs along exterior walls where water was seeping through. It worked very well, it's been 6 years now and the mold hasn't returned (we had to fix the source- foundation issue also of course) Concrobium is non-toxic, I just bought a couple of gallons of concentrate and a scrub brush with rubber gloves. Nasty black mold disappeared immediately and everything was fine after drying with fans and a dehumidifier with no smell. A couple of "mold specialist" contractors gave us bids between $9-17K to essentially do the same thing that took me a weekend. For the OP, I say wiping the area with Concrobium can't hurt, no downside, let it dry and everything should be fine. Comes in jugs or spray bottles. Amazon or your local hardware store should carry it. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=concrobiu...l_70phdgn3od_e

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by stackie

But, I don't see how to remediate the drywall behind cabinets without removing.

Cut holes in the backside of the cabinet and through the drywall between each stud to dry out and treat. If you do this with a hole saw you can probably put the pieces back in the cabinet without ever noticing it.

I'd probably cut out the section of drywall behind where the fridge was and replace it once you're all done.

[benb]

We've unfortunately had about 4 different water leak events in our house in the last 13 years.

Get the remediation companies in there immediately and call your insurance. Just cause you call them doesn't mean they won't be of help. They will not charge you to come in and assess the situation, and they have lots of tools that you do not have to measure how much water is there. Normal construction contractors don't seem to have any of this stuff or know about it. Just cause you call them does not mean you even have to let them do the dry out once they assess the situation.

Depending on who you send out they may try to upsell you on things you don't need. That is a separate thing.

What has happened with us is they might try to say:

"You should let us tear out the rug/floor and replace it. If we just dry everything we might fail. If you refuse to tear the rug out and our drying process doesn't work and you get mold you will be on the hook for the additional work. Your insurance will not cover additional work after you refused."

But the thing is we have at least 2x not let them tear out the rug/floor, they dry the room and it has always worked. We made this decision because we know we have the money to pay for the extra work if they did fail.

If you do just a dry out they will bring a lot more equipment and it is not very expensive. We had 20+ fans and 2 big dehumdifiers in our last 2 events and the total bill was like $2000 each time, covered by insurance. They actually brought so much equipment we had trouble powering it in our house (200A service).

Our neighbors in the recent event also had water damage, did not listen, and ended up with $20k+ in additional work because they attempted to do the dryout themselves. They ended up with all the flooring having to be replaced along with drywall & insulation halfway up the walls.

If you get the insurance involved and it turns out to be the contractors fault the insurance will probably go after the contractor and you might be out less money.

[stackie]

The drywall behind unit already removed. It had to go to get unit in as the cabinets were lightly shallower than normal. All part of a design to make a 6 inch jog in the wall disappear.

We do have another company coming to look today who initially wanted $1000 deposit to come drop supplies and a team to dry out. I asked if they wanted to see it first. They finally agreed to come look first. The company who came yesterday said he was surprised that was their solution. He's interested to see what they say today when they lay eyes on it.

If have to take any cabinets/flooring out will likely be insurance claim. Have 1% deductible so $6600 deductible. I have USAA which apparently has taken a real turn for the worse with regards to customer service. I'm actually considering switching insurance companies.

Jon

[benb]

Servpro is who we used the last 2x, they didn’t charge a deposit or bring anything in the initial visit. They sent a couple guys with test equipment and then once you sign they roll the truck.

[stackie]

Thanks again for all who have chimed in!

Jon