Dura Ace or Ultegra

[bob heinatz]

I am going to be receiving a new custom Kirk frame in the next week or two and I have been debating between Dura Ace or Ultegra for the build. I have been strictly a Campy man up to now but I have decided to try one of the Japanse groups. The new group will be mechanical. I don't race and I will be using 2 sets of wheels, new carbon rims with 25's and Hed Belgium plus with 32's. 95% of my riding will be road and occasional gravel.
Is the Ultegra worthy of a new Kirk? I do like the 11 - 34 cassette available with the Ultegra. This could be my last bike. I don't mind spending the difference for Dura Ace but is it necessary? What do you think?

[CDollarsign]

If I was building my last potential bike you'd better believe it would have record 12 on it.

[duff_duffy]

Stick with Campy

[Dave]

Chorus 12 will soon be out and have an 11-34 with better cog spacing and a sub-compact crank option. Only the black aluminum brake levers turn me off.
I'd have to move up to Record levers.

Shimano may need another hub redesign for 12 speed.

https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mec...ts/chorus/road

[robt57]

Originally Posted by CDollarsign

If I was building my last potential bike you'd better believe it would have record 12 on it.

Probably me as well, Or move the 80th Ani SR Group over from the 22 year Old Spectrum Ti Super I can't stop riding.

But as far as Shimano, I believe I'd do the Dura-Ace. Although I have not used the R8000 STi myself. Have 6800/5800 though. Coming from 7800 for me I did not like the feel of either. And now I am ERGO as I like the hand ergonomics and no brake lever swinging for a shift.
[Did Di2 as well, and am a cabled ERGO guy now FWIW]

I will add that if weight is a factor for you, I believe the spread between the two in the latest iterations has grown.
In other words as I recall 6800 is lighter than M8000.

[Jmj2323]

I would stick with Record 12 or Dura Ace. While Ultegra and DA have identical shifting performance, I’d go for more bling on my last bike.

[bob heinatz]

Hey I love Campy but I do want to try Shimano. Thanks so far for your replies. Other opinions?

[Mark McM]

I've recently tried 3 different Ultegra equipped bikes, and I've noticed some undesireable behavior with the shifters, but maybe I'm just using them wrong.

I've been a long time Campagnolo user, and I've become accustomed to using Ergo shifters (specifically, the Ultra-Shift variety). I'm used to being able to shift multiple rear sprockets with a single lever throw, in both directions. With Ultegra (or any other Shimano mechanical STI shifter) one can do multiple shifts to larger sprockets, but when shifting to smaller sprockets of course it will only shift one sprocket per lever push. Fair enough, I guess - that's just the way they're designed to work. But one would think that if you wanted to shift to a gear 2 or 3 sprockets away toward the smaller sprockets, you'd just push the upshift lever 2 or 3 times in a row. But in my experience, if you push the upshift lever multiple times in quick succession, the lever will often fail to engage the shift mechanism, and therefore fail to do a shift. So instead of shifting, the lever just flaps back and forth.

When the shifters on the first bike did this, I figured that that maybe the lever was just a little sticky. But the 2nd bike I tried with Ultegra shifters did the same thing. And the Ultegra levers on the 3rd bike also did this. Am I just doing it wrong? Or are shifts with Ultegra shifters just inherently slower than with Campagnolo shifters?

[fignon's barber]

I'd used only Campy since starting in the late 80's. Mostly chorus, but splurged a few times for record/super record combos. Bought a gravel bike with the new ultegra disc brake group last summer.
I don't want to start another campy-shimano debate, but my honest opinion is that ultegra is easier to acquire ( comes oem on most bikes), less expensive, functions ok, disc brakesare proven, looks good from a distance. The finish of chorus is far better, shifting is crisper (and stays crisper), ergo levers far better, disc brake less known.

[madsciencenow]

I've used DA9100 and R8000 and if money is no object then get the 9100 but you really aren't going to notice a difference in shift quality from one to the other IMHO. The 9100 is a bit less in the weight department and I think that's about the difference.

[cp43]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I've recently tried 3 different Ultegra equipped bikes, and I've noticed some undesireable behavior with the shifters, but maybe I'm just using them wrong.

I've been a long time Campagnolo user, and I've become accustomed to using Ergo shifters (specifically, the Ultra-Shift variety). I'm used to being able to shift multiple rear sprockets with a single lever throw, in both directions. With Ultegra (or any other Shimano mechanical STI shifter) one can do multiple shifts to larger sprockets, but when shifting to smaller sprockets of course it will only shift one sprocket per lever push. Fair enough, I guess - that's just the way they're designed to work. But one would think that if you wanted to shift to a gear 2 or 3 sprockets away toward the smaller sprockets, you'd just push the upshift lever 2 or 3 times in a row. But in my experience, if you push the upshift lever multiple times in quick succession, the lever will often fail to engage the shift mechanism, and therefore fail to do a shift. So instead of shifting, the lever just flaps back and forth.

When the shifters on the first bike did this, I figured that that maybe the lever was just a little sticky. But the 2nd bike I tried with Ultegra shifters did the same thing. And the Ultegra levers on the 3rd bike also did this. Am I just doing it wrong? Or are shifts with Ultegra shifters just inherently slower than with Campagnolo shifters?

I've never had Shimano shifters not shift quickly enough for my presses.

However, if you press the smaller paddle part way in, then also try to press the larger lever at the same time, the whole thing locks up as you describe. My guess is that it is user error. It's pretty subtle though, and not something you can do with a Campy shifter.

Hope that helps.

Chris

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by cp43

I've never had Shimano shifters not shift quickly enough for my presses.

However, if you press the smaller paddle part way in, then also try to press the larger lever at the same time, the whole thing locks up as you describe. My guess is that it is user error. It's pretty subtle though, and not something you can do with a Campy shifter.

Hope that helps.

Chris

No, I don't think that was it. After a few mis-shifts (and not knowing what was going on), I was careful about what I hit and when. It definitely only occurred on the 2nd press of the inner lever, and the lever itself wasn't locked up - the lever rotated further inboard on the 2nd press than on the 1st press (and there was no back-pressure on the 2nd press, indicating it was moving independently and not engaged with anything), and the main lever remained perfectly straight.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by cp43

not something you can do with a Campy shifter.

Well, from time to time if not paying attention and having some pressure on the Thumb lever of all my 11s UL-Shift Ergos, I get a lockup if I press the paddle before getting totally off the thumb lever.

So respectfully, something I seem to be able to do [have occur] with UL-Shift ERGOs. 2011-14 Chorus, Record and SR.

[jtbadge]

Classic Paceline. Thread started about Shimano, replies make it all about Campy.

Ultegra is 100% worthy of a Kirk. If you want the wider range over DA, it's a no brainer. They are also cross-compatible, so you can always run an Ultegra cassette/RD with DA everything else.

If you're concerned about things getting dinged up from riding on gravel, no sense in spending extra for the nicer finish quality on DA.

Also, seems like R9100/R8000 might have been a slight downgrade in quality and level of finish from 9000/6800, which have been exceptional in my experience.

RE: missed or "sticky" multiple shifts, sounds like an installation problem. The shifting action needs the newest "slick" cables and housing, Ultegra or DA level cable kits will be a huge improvement over standard bike shop bulk parts.

[MattTuck]

I own a Kirk with Ultegra mechanical on it. My only complaint is the cable started to disintegrate under the hood and little metal wires started to push through and poke my hand.

I guess this is a known issue with Shimano stuff, because of their effort to get the brake cables under the bar tape. They make the cable take some pretty sharp turns, and this can happen.

That said, if you change your cables at regular intervals, I don't think it is an issue. And I have been happy with the performance of the ultegra level group.