OT: Film cameras and photography comeback?

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by benb

I am exceedingly not interested in P&S anything at this point because smartphone cameras have literally gotten better than P&S cameras.

Kindle vs printed book. The Kindle is objectively better, but some people just love the experience of reading a physical book.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by benb

I am exceedingly not interested in P&S anything at this point because smartphone cameras have literally gotten better than P&S cameras.

You're using the wrong P&S then.

But, the best camera is the one you have with you and for most of us thats the phone.

[charliedid]

I have always wanted to own an 8x10 field camera....maybe as a retirement activity. I'm afraid I am too hyper and love the immediate gratification of digital but field cams have always appealed. 8x10 contact prints are out of this world.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Film has indeed made a big comeback. The price and availability of film during covid was really bad - fortunately things have settled down a bit.

I've been dabbling in photography for a long time and picked back up with film a few years ago. It all started with buying older film (Konica) lenses to adapt to my Fuji mirrorless camera, and I figured I'd get a 35mm SLR to use them too.



Why? Because the used 35mm 'point and shoot' style options are all old and getting fragile, prices have gone through the roof, and a lot of them are generally not repairable - or if they are its not cost effective. Or they have a Leica badge on them.

I would really like to see autofocus on this camera, that one really misses the mark for me. I really really want a nice 35mm 'point and shoot' AF camera but the nice ones are coming up on $1000 and the cheaper ones are a roll of the dice and some of the lenses on them are just atrocious. At $20-30 per roll by the time its done I'm not wasting time with ****ty plastic lenses.

Yeah, I guess we just see things totally different. Any of my old camera's from as far back as the 60's are still functioning so I wouldn't view used camera's on the market as fragile myself. There's 43,000+ film P&S on Ebay right now.

How are those adapting lenses working for you? I went the same route primarily when I converted to digital. Running around 30 old manual focus Leica R, Contax Zeiss, Pentax, Olympus and even Mamiya 645 lenses adapted to my EOS mounts. They are all top-notch performers.

This was shot with a Pentax SMC 50 1.4 on my 5D and when printed the microcontrast from that lens has the white aspen trunks giving a 3D appearance that makes it look like they are sticking out of the paper.

[benb]

Originally Posted by .RJ

You're using the wrong P&S then.

But, the best camera is the one you have with you and for most of us thats the phone.

Eh.. I had some of the famous popular P&Ses and still have a couple.

Most of the really nice smartphones have 3X prime lenses at this point.

Most film P&S cameras had:

- 1 Prime lens (IMO if you can swap the lens it is not P&S)
- 1 really mediocre zoom lens

That's a big part of why I prefer the smartphones.

And the slow lenses on P&S for the most part negated any issues with film grain versus digital noise/denoise artifacts for me.

None of it really matters versus who is taking the picture and their decisions. But I'm going to have the phone with me no matter what, which is another point in favor of the phone.

[hernium]

Originally Posted by benb

Most of the really nice smartphones have 3X prime lenses at this point.

I know you addressed the user being the most important factor, but when it comes to taking photos on my iPhone compared to my partner, it's very obvious she rarely if ever uses the other two prime lenses, while I'll faff about focal lengths.

Since I carry about a messenger bag almost everywhere now, I have an Olympus XA4 that does most of the memory making these days. Phone cameras are glorified photo-notebooks.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Yeah, I guess we just see things totally different. Any of my old camera's from as far back as the 60's are still functioning so I wouldn't view used camera's on the market as fragile myself. There's 43,000+ film P&S on Ebay right now.

There are a few issues with used cameras...
- P&S were usually budget options (Contax and similar are the exception) and not (easily) repairable - the plastic gets fragile over time - you can probably find a good example, but there's no easy way to test in advance.
- SLR, rangefinder, etc from the 60s and 70s often have fungus, oil problems, etc - finding somebody to do a basic clean/repair is getting hard (the experts have mostly retired). Finding parts can also be a problem. Not everybody wants to disassemble and repair their own camera (I'd be willing to try on something simple like a Trip 35, but probably not anything fancier).
- Cameras from the 70s into the 80s/90s started to get lots of electronic controls - harder to fix, often don't have a mechanical manual mode, etc.

Cameras from the 60s almost always had mechanical controls - if the light meter failed, no problem, use Sunny 16 or an external meter. Everything else was mechanical.

And like RJ said, the premium P&S are going for big money right now. Thousands for a Contax T2.

The 35 DC I just bought doesn't have a mechanical fallback - it's autoexposure or nothing - if the light meter fails, it's a brick.

[RFC]

In my early 20's I worked as a photojounalist, spent countless nights in the dark room exposing myself to noxious chemicals to eke out a few good images from expensive film after hours of work.

When I got my first digital camera, a top of the line 1 megapixal Olympus,
I said goodbye to film, sold my Leicas and never looked back.

Does that give you some idea of my opinion on the subject?

[ntb1001]

Film does seem to have made somewhat of a comeback. My daughter and some of her friends are into film cameras now. They’re some social media influencers out there creating some interest .

As far as switching back, I don’t think that will ever happen, although I still have all my Hasselblad gear, and use it every once in a while .





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Yeah, I guess we just see things totally different. Any of my old camera's from as far back as the 60's are still functioning so I wouldn't view used camera's on the market as fragile myself. There's 43,000+ film P&S on Ebay right now.

As I was looking for/researching this rabbit hole this spring, I just saw so, so, so many listed that were either untested, for parts/repair, flash doesnt work, film rewind sticks, shutter sticks, and so on. And anything that relies on a battery to drive everything the electronics can be fragile. But if you want something with a metal case, good lens and solid build quality, they're $700-1200 for something like a Contax T2.

If they're looked after, sure they can be great and in the past 2-3 years the prices have just exploded. Every pre-covid times review I read with a price guide, the prices now are all 3x what was quoted 5 years ago. It just turns into "I'll use my SLR instead".

Originally Posted by jamesdak

How are those adapting lenses working for you?

Oh its really fantastic. Adapters are available for nearly every system for $10-20, and lenses remain fairly reasonable money for some great glass - with easy resale if I decide I want to try it and move on to something else.

I tried a bunch of different lens systems but settled on Konica stuff about 5 years ago and bought quite a few of them - and I'm glad I did as the prices on those have shot up and they take great images. I passed on some of the rarer lenses as they just dont have a use for me and I have a nice Nikons too and those are top shelf - if you dont mind the manual focus a really nice 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor is still $60!

And I'll make one last thought - I love the look of film, and as someone who primarily learned on digital, it forces me to really slow down and think about things. But compared to my Fuji and the native Fuji lenses, there's no comparison for ease of use or IQ.

[jpang922]

Film cameras go well with handmade rim brake bikes, mechanical watches, and vinyl records where one takes more pleasure in form than function (take pictures, win races, keep time, play music). It’s a luxury.

[benb]

Originally Posted by hernium

I know you addressed the user being the most important factor, but when it comes to taking photos on my iPhone compared to my partner, it's very obvious she rarely if ever uses the other two prime lenses, while I'll faff about focal lengths.

Since I carry about a messenger bag almost everywhere now, I have an Olympus XA4 that does most of the memory making these days. Phone cameras are glorified photo-notebooks.

I especially don't get it with an XA4. Really chunky and has a 28mm f/3.5 lens and probably limited metering and control and then you have to pay $20 every 24-36 frames?

Do you keep an album of 4x6s or pay someone to scan the film?

I still have a 4000dpi film/slide scanner. Major PITA and I'm not even sure what hoops I would have to jump through to get it working. The manufacturer doesn't support it, Vuescan still does IIRC. I have an old windows computer that probably still has Vuescan. It takes a LONG time to do anything with. I have a very nice printer, but it requires digitizing anything that's on film.

If you're not doing it yourself the other big problem IME (I still have 2 film cameras) is the quality of work at the labs is terrible now. 20 years ago there were multiple places in every town to get film and prints done and they did a good job. Now there are far fewer and they are pretty bad at it.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by Alistair

There are a few issues with used cameras...
- P&S were usually budget options (Contax and similar are the exception) and not (easily) repairable - the plastic gets fragile over time - you can probably find a good example, but there's no easy way to test in advance.
- SLR, rangefinder, etc from the 60s and 70s often have fungus, oil problems, etc - finding somebody to do a basic clean/repair is getting hard (the experts have mostly retired). Finding parts can also be a problem. Not everybody wants to disassemble and repair their own camera (I'd be willing to try on something simple like a Trip 35, but probably not anything fancier).
- Cameras from the 70s into the 80s/90s started to get lots of electronic controls - harder to fix, often don't have a mechanical manual mode, etc.

Guess I"m out of touch with the used market I used to rely on quite heavily. Just went to KEH and even it's a whole different format look now. That used to be the place to hit. Or the reputable forums like Fred Miranda.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Guess I"m out of touch with the used market I used to rely on quite heavily. Just went to KEH and even it's a whole different format look now. That used to be the place to hit. Or the reputable forums like Fred Miranda.

KEH and forums are still the best bets. But, inventory is limited. KEH usually has an assortment of Olympus OM bodies (35mm, not digital) but the rangefinders aren't always available. They'll have assorted Leicas, but maybe not any Contax T2s. Etc.

Ebay can be hit or miss and many of the listings are from Japan (they LOVE cameras over there, I guess) - not the end of the world, but complicates returns and stuff. Lots of the sellers are also not camera people - just cleaning out attics, estate sales, etc - at the most, they'll click the shutter button, but they aren't going to tell you if the lens has fungus, or there's oil on the shutter, or the winding mechanism is sticky.

And there are definitely a small number of "hot" cameras that have prices going to the moon.

[jkbrwn]

Film cameras are cheap, unfortunately film prices are astronomical versus where they were five years ago. With that said, film ain't dead

I only shoot film as a special treat now if I'm going somewhere special due to the costs.