Ways only the elite can die

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Viper

Prescriptive or non, he overdosed on drugs and he's dead. Drugs didn't kill Heath Ledger, Heath Ledger killed Heath Ledger. Same for Anna Nicole and the rest who die in that fashion.

The multi-national pharmaceutical companies which push drugs for every imaginable malady bear partial responsibility.

Turn on the TV sometime or open up any newspaper or magazine and they are pushing something heavily. And they push doctors hard to prescribe their meds.

Old fashioned, but "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" has never been more appropriate IMHO.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Fixed

+1 pain killed him imho

Hiding and numbing the pain with these killed him = acute intoxication by the combined effects of oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, temazepam, alprazolam and doxylamine atmo.

He is dead. His daughter is alive. Did he 'replace' heroin and cocaine for prescribed smack?

When I die, my blood will be clean and so will my conscience.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by saab2000

The multi-national pharmaceutical companies which push drugs for every imaginable malady bear partial responsibility.

Turn on the TV sometime or open up any newspaper or magazine and they are pushing something heavily. And they push doctors hard to prescribe their meds.

Old fashioned, but "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" has never been more appropriate IMHO.

Huge fan of personal accountablity here. Heath took the drugs, nobody shoved them down his throat. I don't blame Merck or Smith Klein Beacham etc. Man makes drugs. Man has the ability to ingest them. Man overdoses and dies. Britney Spears will be dead soon if she doesn't stop taking drugs. And it'll be her fault and nobody else's.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Viper

Huge fan of personal accountablity here. Heath took the drugs, nobody shoved them down his throat. I don't blame Merck or Smith Klein Beacham etc. Man makes drugs. Man has the ability to ingest them. Man overdoses and dies.

I am a huge fan of personal accountability as well. But the companies create 'illnesses' and then created drugs for those illnesses.

Personally I don't like taking anything stronger than a Tylenol and I am with you on the personal responsibility thing.

But let's be honest about the motivation of the pharma industries motivation - massive profit. My folks both take an outrageous cocktail of drugs every day for things which in my opinion could be at the very least reduced through things other than drugs. Exercise and proper diet come to mind.

Yes, Heath Ledger took whatever he took of his own accord. But many people are 'advised' professionally to take this or that drug to help this or that problem, real or imaginary. And the pushy advertising of the pharmaceutical industry and their ties with doctors has me at least quite suspicious of their motivation. Profit before ethics? Hmmm.....

[Fixed]

Originally Posted by Viper

Hiding and numbing the pain with these killed him = acute intoxication by the combined effects of oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, temazepam, alprazolam and doxylamine atmo.

He is dead. His daughter is alive. Did he 'replace' heroin and cocaine for prescribed smack?

When I die, my blood will be clean and so will my conscience.

"Mors ultima linea rerum est"
cheers




(Death is everything's final limit)

[Viper]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I am a huge fan of personal accountability as well. But the companies create 'illnesses' and then created drugs for those illnesses.

Personally I don't like taking anything stronger than a Tylenol and I am with you on the personal responsibility thing.

But let's be honest about the motivation of the pharma industries motivation - massive profit. My folks both take an outrageous cocktail of drugs every day for things which in my opinion could be at the very least reduced through things other than drugs. Exercise and proper diet come to mind.

Yes, Heath Ledger took whatever he took of his own accord. But many people are 'advised' professionally to take this or that drug to help this or that problem, real or imaginary. And the pushy advertising of the pharmaceutical industry and their ties with doctors has me at least quite suspicious of their motivation. Profit before ethics? Hmmm.....

'The Shadow Box' by John R. Maxim is a good read. I grabbed it in JFK enroute to SF back in 1997. Murder/mystery...revolves around pharma industry. Neat, good book atmo:

http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Box-Joh.../dp/0380786680

[malcolm]

Saab, brother I'll have to disagree here. The drugs the companies push are not the ones that kill young folks. They die from various narcotics and benzodiazipines all of which are fairly cheap and recieve little advertising budget. The companies push somatostatins and various 2-3$/pill things that they make a killing on. I don't feel drug companies should be allowed to advertise perscription drugs. I know many think this opens a dialogue with their doctor, but mostly it encourages people to look for a fix in a pill. I've been in emergency medicine for 20 years same ED 13 and the number of people I see that are looking to fix a broken life with a visit to a doctor and a prescription increases every year. 24 hour pseudo news is also to blame they have people so paranoid they rush to the ED as soon as they develop fever or if they throw up one time. The people that frequent this board and exercise regularly are not the norm at least in the population I deal with. Don't even get me started on prescription drug addicts and the lengths they will go to get meds, and best of all we (doctors) created a majority of them. It is easier to give the lortab prescription than risk a bad patient satisfaction survey and have the admistrators breathing down your neck and threatening your income.
As for Heath, I too beleive in personal responsibiltiy, but it is much more complicated than that. A destructive life style is insidious and sneaks up on you and particularly if you have the right personality many times you are dead before you fully realize how screwed up you are. Remember the life style of the rich and famous does little to enhance perspective taking or ability to perceive consequences. Heath and his family deserve sympathy, just like the kid down the street you never heard of that died in a very similar fashion or some bum in an alley that died drunk. If a wasted human life isn't worth our sympathy what is. Be thankful you have yours and your friends have theirs and hopefully the sense to protect it.

[MarleyMon]

Originally Posted by Viper

When I die, my blood will be clean and so will my conscience.

I'm sure there will be a parade.

[saab2000]

When I left the US in my late teens I don't recall the onslaught of drug advertising that greeted me upon my return in my late 30's. I was shocked to see all the new illnesses and conditions they had come up with and the humorous (to me at least) acronyms they used to legitimise it as if everyone talks about ED and RLS and whatever else they come up with when out with the guys grunting around in the mountains or gals at a garden luncheon. The TV commercials make me cringe. Many of the things they make drugs to treat are the result, pure and simple, of choices people make regarding diet and lifestyle.

I am not in the medical profession, but as an observer of life I am still suspicious of the pharmaceutical companies even though some of them have their homes in my beloved Switzerland.

I know they have done many great things and we probably wouldn't be able to moan about Lance Armstrong and his outrageous performances in the TdF without the life-saving drugs he took while fighting cancer. Instead we would be lament the loss of a great talent at too young an age.

As with anything, there needs to be a balance.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by MarleyMon

I'm sure there will be a parade.

Better yet, I plan on a parade while still living. Of course you're invited.

[Blue Jays]

I would totally attend a parade for a fellow cyclist. That would be very cool.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Blue Jays

I would totally attend a parade for a fellow cyclist. That would be very cool.

We can have a parade this summer. Let's call it a century with a peleton atmo. There's a few cats out there I'd like to show that yes, the north shore of Long Island has tons of serious .5 mile climbs atmo atmo.

[MarleyMon]

Originally Posted by Viper

Better yet, I plan on a parade while still living. Of course you're invited.

Will it be to celebrate your smug self-righteousness?
If so, I must gently decline your invitation.

Originally Posted by malcolm

Heath and his family deserve sympathy, just like the kid down the street you never heard of that died in a very similar fashion or some bum in an alley that died drunk. If a wasted human life isn't worth our sympathy what is. Be thankful you have yours and your friends have theirs and hopefully the sense to protect it.

This is good, thanks.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Originally Posted by Viper

Better yet, I plan on a parade while still living. Of course you're invited.

. . . throwing free bacon to spectators from the throne on your float?

BBD

[ti_boi]

Originally Posted by Fixed

"Mors ultima linea rerum est"
cheers




(Death is everything's final limit)

Awesome....my new sig.