Jets assistant coach Greg Knapp dead after bike crash

[Hellgate]

Originally Posted by Waldo62

Please change the thread title, it was not "bike crash" for f's sake!

A bike crash is when the rider crashes, pothole, wet leaves etc. More accurate is cyclist struck by car. Joe Friday.

[smontanaro]

Originally Posted by prototoast

"Can be fatal" is true, but the probabilities of collisions being fatal are definitely not the same between 5mph and 30mph or 30 mph and 60 mph.

Or between big a$$ SUVs or pickups and other smaller vehicles designed to be somewhat less harmful. Look at F-150, Silverado or Escalade pix. They are like mobile brick walls. There's not much chance you're going to roll over the hood when struck.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

A bike crash is when the rider crashes, pothole, wet leaves etc. More accurate is cyclist struck by car. Joe Friday.

Collision is the best term. Certainly never accident.

[gone]

Originally Posted by GregL

We need a full-on press like MADD did against drunk driving. All vulnerable road users need much stronger legal protection and associated penalties for drivers breaking the laws.

Let me say firstly that I agree 100% with you and the post you quoted which says we should change the liability laws to protect vulnerable users.

Having said that, reading about people here in Wisco arrested for their 5th, 6th, 7th, DWI is as much an every day occurrence as reading tomorrow's weather forecast. Although I think it's likely that some people's behavior is moderated by the potential for punishment and will certainly agree that every little bit helps in terms of making roads safer for vulnerable users, a pervasive change of attitude is required and I've no idea how to effect that.

[AngryScientist]

It's been a whole bunch of years for me, but i remember thinking what a joke driver's education classes were.

Anyone have kids near that age? have they incorporated distracted driving, cell phones, etc into the course?

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by prototoast

"Can be fatal" is true, but the probabilities of collisions being fatal are definitely not the same between 5mph and 30mph or 30 mph and 60 mph.

This particular incident occurred in a 50 mph zone (though admittedly I don't know the speed of the particular driver). A car going 30 mph has only 36% of the kinetic energy of a car going 50. Mr Knapp was hospitalized for several days before he died after the collision. Is it that hard to imagine that if the driver had been going 30 mph, maybe Mr Knapp still ends up in the hospital, but his injuries aren't fatal with 64% less energy in the collision.

And that's presuming the collision still occurs. If the driver is doing 30 instead of 50, he has 70% more time to react to potentially avoid Mr Knapp entirely.

We are not in disagreement.

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

It's been a whole bunch of years for me, but i remember thinking what a joke driver's education classes were.

Anyone have kids near that age? have they incorporated distracted driving, cell phones, etc into the course?

Without a doubt....

I just had my youngest complete his driver training last year....it is no longer run by the public schools (at least in my area) and it is outsourced to various companies. The one we put him thru is run by cops and EMTs (911 Driving School). I think they did a pretty good job, and "distracted driving" (i.e. phones) seemed to be a special emphasis....

Both my boys went thru their course, and seem to do OK. Neither drives fast (AFAIK) and seem pretty mellow behind the wheel.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by gone

Having said that, reading about people here in Wisco arrested for their 5th, 6th, 7th, DWI is as much an every day occurrence as reading tomorrow's weather forecast. Although I think it's likely that some people's behavior is moderated by the potential for punishment and will certainly agree that every little bit helps in terms of making roads safer for vulnerable users, a pervasive change of attitude is required and I've no idea how to effect that.

Your observation is spot on. Once your DUI count goes past 1, you have a substance abuse problem, not a judgement problem. Unfortunately, our society tends to punish substance abuse rather than treat the root causes. That being said, if someone cannot or will not be successfully treated for substance abuse AND they are a danger to society, long-term incarceration may be the only alternative.

Greg

[buddybikes]

What catches my eye here in RI, the nips, primarily fireballs at the cash register. They then are disposed along road of the shoreline we walk the dogs.

Govt doesn't give a damn.....

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

What catches my eye here in RI, the nips, primarily fireballs at the cash register. They then are disposed along road of the shoreline we walk the dogs.

Govt doesn't give a damn.....

Is there a translation for this?

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Is there a translation for this?

Mini bottles of alcohol consumed and then discarded along the side of the road.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Mini bottles of alcohol consumed and then discarded along the side of the road.

Ah. Thx. Never heard that expression.

[LeMond123]

Sad story. As a Broncos fan I remember Coach Knapp from his years here more by name than anything (used to be a sports radio guy on the commutes that I drove).

Overall I think this is a good discussion of many points.

I like the idea of raising awareness through MADD or similar organizations and approach. This may be the best option available. But I hardly watch TV anymore, and if I do I never watch commercials. Maybe I'm the outlier there. Maybe they could advertise on Facebook so the distracted drivers can see it when they're about to hit someone (joking of course).

I also like the idea of increasing penalties. Or something along those lines. But as mentioned, I'm definitely one to get softer about these situations when I see the perpetrator and think about their life, their friends and family too. I don't know the right balance.

The biggest impacts these stories, getting older, and having kids have had for me is on my own driving and riding styles. It's OK to miss that light and be a few minutes later when driving, it's OK to not set a PR on every segment when riding. And last I would say I think I agree that I see less animosity towards cyclists as time goes on, but there are some that just can't help themselves.

Ride safe and keep the rubber side down...

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

I think you can easily morph MADD to encompass distracted driving.

I think we're going to have to lean on MADD for more impaired driving issues, not just alcohol.

With the rapid spread of pot legalization, expect the incidents of stoned drivers involved in crashes to increase dramatically, if my olfactory research while bike riding is any accurate.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

What catches my eye here in RI, the nips, primarily fireballs at the cash register. They then are disposed along road of the shoreline we walk the dogs.

Govt doesn't give a damn.....

Ain't no problem with nip bottles...

P.S. Connecticut just imposed a ten cent surcharge on nip bottle sales in an attempt to curb the problem.

[crankles]

Originally Posted by bpm

And using the word "accident" infuriates me. The report is that the driver was texting and swerved into the bike lane. That's not an accident, that's negligence.

This. an accident is when lightning strikes you, not a distracted driver.