Rivendell saved for now...

[Joe Remi]

Anyway, that's enough out of me, I'm just getting on y'all's nerves now. My new Dahon just got here and I gotta unpack it!

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

That sentiment doesn't exactly come through crystal clear from a site where the Blahg spends many words telling people why threaded headsets are the greatest thing ever, threadless is lame, thumb shifters are where it's at, and no one actually needs any of the "new" stuff the industry pushes on people. Which is particularly complicating when it seems new models are increasingly ordered only through pre-sale and deposits and a looooong wait for delivery from the producer. Gotta give customers some image to cling to, even that image maybe isn't what Grant would personally ride.

tl;dr: The overall tone isn't exactly "We'll build what you want."

Yeah, I agree, it can't be both ways where someone says buried in there they are offering new stuff and then you go to the site and no, it's all about you don't need it.

It's one thing to be quirky but us they're walking away from basic modern componentry then they are really narrowing their already small customer base.

The business decision to go this route is equal to or even worse than the soap and ax side lines. None of that is moving bikes out the door.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

But I know they'll build exactly what I want because I read the site regularly. What I'm getting from some of you guys is Riv isn't your thing, then you complain it isn't your thing after a couple cursory glances at the site. Maybe you should just accept you like other bikes and parts better. That's ok.

Again, I'd request you don't imply something I or others didn't say, much as you did a couple pages back.

The sad truth is much of the market does like other bikes and parts better in a segment Riv pioneered. Which is why Riv finds themselves where they are now.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Again, I'd request you don't imply something I or others didn't say, much as you did a couple pages back.

The sad truth is much of the market does like other bikes and parts better in a segment Riv pioneered. Which is why Riv finds themselves where they are now.

I'm implying exactly what I'm seeing: People who don't spend much time on the Riv site keep saying they don't see what they want to see on it. I'm talking to walls here and I quit.

[AngryScientist]

Ordinarily, i would agree that discussing a small business with regard to their financials, cash-flow deficiencies and book keeping is not generally cool on a public cycling forum.

it's the same basic idea of why you dont pass around your balance sheet and checkbook at the thanksgiving table to your extended family and why you dont discuss your salary and 401k balance with your coworkers over beers at lunch.

that stuff is better kept behind the curtain for a small business, and as a more private matter for management to.....manage.

Riv throws all that out the window when they send out a blast email to anyone who is on their mail list asking for a no interest loan not once, but twice now, along with some intimate details of their financial shortcomings. Now what shouldnt be a matter of public interest.....is.

Joe Remi seems to think it is not OK to discuss Riv and their business model at all, unless in a very positive light, and i would generally agree that small businesses have enough of a struggle in the world that they dont need us the peanut gallery who dont know the whole story to drag through their situation, but once they decided to bring their dirty laundry out into the public space - this discussion becomes very much fair game, IMO.

i dont think that was the right thing for them to do the first time, but there is a lot of good will for them in the world and a lot of supporters and it seemingly worked out OK; but to come back to the well a second time is a bridge too far for me, and apparently a lot of other Riv supporters.

Anyway, my opinion of the underlying problem is that Riv was once a niche who were the only real game in town to sell you a comfortable gravel bike, but now every single major bike mfg in the world offers just such a bike.

we used to have to choose a cross racing bike, an old touring bike or a mtb if we wanted to ride dirt roads like D2R2, but now everyone makes a bike to comfortably ride those roads, not just Rivendell.

How they recover from that is going to be tricky, but i dont think increasing the volume of axe and bespoke soap sales are the answer to the question at hand.

[Joe Remi]

It's ok to discuss it, you have a right to discuss it. I just don't see much good faith behind a lot of the comments in this thread behind it. Ironically, there's a whole lotta axe-grinding going on, and yes, I consider this unhealthy. But knock yourselves out.

[echelon_john]

I can’t speak for others in terms of axe grinding, but what I see is a a sad, slow motion car crash happening over and over again in terms of business practices and cash flow-induced Hail Marys.

I have owned a Rivendell, bought plenty of stuff there over the years. Their brand is an emotional one rather than a rational one. It ties together nostalgia, perceived practicality and quirkiness in a sometimes resonant, sometimes messy package.

As with Serotta, I have respect for what Rivendell produces because it reflects a singular vision—Grant’s, Ben’s—but that vision has absolutely NOTHING to do with business acumen, as is plain to see.

At a certain point, either the vision has to change or the business will fail.

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

It's ok to discuss it, you have a right to discuss it. I just don't see much good faith behind a lot of the comments in this thread behind it. Ironically, there's a whole lotta axe-grinding going on, and yes, I consider this unhealthy. But knock yourselves out.

[Joe Remi]

Well sure, that's a reasoned argument, I'm just not convinced an email nudging people to buy something is a Hail Mary. I understood - and reacted to it - as a reminder to think of Riv during a time when most of the world isn't buying bikey stuff. I didn't literally buy a $20 credit, I went ahead and spent $100 on some stuff I'd put off for months.

I understand some folks don't like Grant's open book philosophy to the business, but it's been there since the original Progress Reports in the Readers. I don't mind the occasional reminder to buy stuff if it's the kinda stuff I'm into, and it's definitely a purchase. Nobody is giving Rivendell free money.

Ok for reals, no more. You guys know how I see it and most don't agree. Unbuckle your seatbelts and move about. Bye!

[Burnette]

I swear Rivendell's situation is like a microcosm of what too many brick and mortar shops are doing. Big heart with little business acumen. You feel for them but we all have bills and have to make choices wisely or we too pay dearly. They are no different.

And seriously, as had been pointed out more than once, Rivendell put their personal business in the public domain and on top of that asked for money.

Saying that discussing Rivendell's plight, one they engineered themselves, is unhealthy and to make the charge that we aren't discussing it "in good faith" is just an attempt to censor what someone doesn't want to hear.

Rivendell's predicament and choices made before and after the crisis is bad and it is due to their business plan or lack thereof. You can't candy coat their current situation or explain away where they botched the business.

We should indeed discuss it.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by Burnette

I swear Rivendell's situation is like a microcosm of what too many brick and mortar shops are doing. Big heart with little business acumen. You feel for them but we all have bills and have to make choices wisely or we too pay dearly. They are no different.

And seriously, as had been pointed out more than once, Rivendell put their personal business in the public domain and on top of that asked for money.

Saying that discussing Rivendell's plight, one they engineered themselves, is unhealthy and to make the charge that we aren't discussing it "in good faith" is just an attempt to censor what someone doesn't want to hear.

Rivendell's predicament and choices made before and after the crisis is bad and it is due to their business plan or lack thereof. You can't candy coat their current situation or explain away where they botched the business.

We should indeed discuss it.

I'm not censoring anybody, that's ridiculous. I'm disagreeing with most of you and voicing my opinion that a lot of what I read about this $20 thing is bad faith BS. I fully understand you don't like my opinion. It's not censorship.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

I'm not censoring anybody, that's ridiculous. I'm disagreeing with most of you and voicing my opinion that a lot of what I read about this $20 thing is bad faith BS. I fully understand you don't like my opinion. It's not censorship.

It is an attempt at censorship when you characterize our opinions as unhealthy and not in good faith. That won't work I'm afraid as opinions that oppose yours are just as valid.

Again, this isn't a run of the mill gift certificate promo, it's another "we came up short" and of course we're going to discuss it and the last go around that happened last February.

Speaking of which, crap hit the fan last Feburary and it looks like they are coming up short sooner now. By their own words it's not as bad this time, not a Hail Mary, but it is establishing a pattern and at about the same time.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by Burnette

It is an attempt at censorship when you characterize our opinions as unhealthy and not in good faith. That won't work I'm afraid as opinions that oppose yours are just as valid.

Again, this isn't a run of the mill gift certificate promo, it's another "we came up short" and of course we're going to discuss it and the last go around that happened last February.

Speaking of which, crap hit the fan last Feburary and it looks like they are coming up short sooner now. By their own words it's not as bad this time, not a Hail Mary, but it is establishing a pattern and at about the same time.

You should look up censorship. Try the Google, sport.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

You should look up censorship. Try the Google, sport.

It's attempted suppression but it won't work here.

What Rivendell did and is doing is public knowledge and if Rivendell keeps on doing such this thread will continue.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by Burnette

It's attempted suppression but it won't work here.

What Rivendell did and is doing is public knowledge and if Rivendell keeps on doing such this thread will continue.

Dude, stop beating this stupid drum at me and I'll go away, the thread continues, everybody's happy.

[buddybikes]

How is this different than gofundme, give 50.00 and get a Chinese t-shirt (which I never have supported in any way)