Some Basic Waterford Questions

[Hawker]

I've been to the Waterford site and FB page a few times but still find I have some questions...looks like there are at least a few Waterford owners here, so if you don't mind:

1. Interestingly, I can't find a price guide anywhere on their site?? That doesn't make decision making very easy. Wondering what an 853 or Stainless build would cost? Road bike, no lugs. Ball park pricing?

2. What's the difference between an 853 custom build from any of the well known builders and Waterford? Is Waterford "less custom"?

3. I'm "feeling" like perhaps Waterford may be old school in some ways...is that a fair assessment?

4. Do their frame weights compare favorably with other small builders?

5. When I search Waterford here, I find a LOT of bikes for sale. A LOT. What should I take from that? Unhappy buyers, buyers who are just moving up to something better or different?

6. Is there a Waterford owners group, forum or similar that I am missing?

I'm guessing there may be Waterford company people, dealers and owners who will read this. No offense is being made here, nor am I looking for gossip or complaints...I'm just trying to get some basic info as well as thoughts and opinions.

Thanks in advance.

[FlashUNC]

https://waterfordbikes.com/pricing/

[eddief]

so there are many bikes in the marketplace and that leads to more being for sale. Richard Schwinn both for Gunnar and Waterford prefers to work through his dealers rather than one on one like smaller builders. So you would need to get the attention and the customer service mostly through your chosen dealer. That puts a middle person between you and your "custom" bike. I do believe Waterford can do most anything a boutique can do but I think the bikes tend to be more middle of the road in uniqueness than you could arrange through a relationship with a one man shop. A fine lugged Waterford would probably be way less dough than one from finer artisans. Waterford Artisan = $2200:

https://waterfordbikes.com/22-series-artisan/

On the other hand, Waterford can do it all:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/waterfordbikes/

[Hawker]

Originally Posted by eddief

so there are many bikes in the marketplace and that leads to more being for sale. Richard Schwinn both for Gunnar and Waterford prefers to work through his dealers rather than one on one like smaller builders. So you would need to get the attention and the customer service mostly through your chosen dealer. That puts a middle person between you and your "custom" bike. I do believe Waterford can do most anything a boutique can do but I think the bikes tend to be more middle of the road in uniqueness than you could arrange through a relationship with a one man shop. A fine lugged Waterford would probably be way less dough than one from finer artisans.

Understood, but unfortunately they don't show any dealers in the state of GA. But I would hope they have an alternative solution for those in the same situation as I?

[eddief]

in those cases I do believe you can go direct to Waterford. But that's still not as personal as working face to face with a local builder. In fact, when I ordered a Gunnar years ago, there was a dealer nearby but requested to work directly with Richard Schwinn, he said ok, and I ended up with just what I wanted.

Originally Posted by Hawker

Understood, but unfortunately they don't show any dealers in the state of GA. But I would hope they have an alternative solution for those in the same situation as I?

[Ken Robb]

I walked into Waterford unannounced and Richard Schwinn gave me a 1+ hour tour starting with here's where we receive the tubes to here's where we pack the finished frames/forks for shipping. After I got home I bought stock RS11 and loved it. At the handbuilt show a couple of years later I spoke with Richard about what Waterford I should buy that would be better than my RS11. He told me a new 2200 or 33 frame might save me a few ounces but they wouldn't ride any better than the RS11 that I already owned and loved. Waterford is a no "BS" company that produces terrific bikes.. I always thought that a lugged Waterford in shiny black paint with stainless lugs and fork crown was one of the prettiest bikes I ever saw.

You can call Richard just like you can call Steve Hampsten, Dave Kirk, Dave wages and other good builders so see which guy makes you feel like he's "your guy".

[Ken Robb]

I almost forgot: When I explained to Richard that I had a very bad experience trying to get info from his dealer local to me he said he'd be happy to work with me to order a Waterford with any legitimate local dealer so your Georgia location may not be a problem.

[mhespenheide]

I can't comment on their dealer network or on ordering from them directly, but I can say that I bought one of their forks through the classifieds here (second-hand but otherwise unused) and was impressed with the construction and finish. If anything, I think they're underrated as a custom shop/builder, particularly given their prices.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I walked into Waterford unannounced and Richard Schwinn gave me a 1+ hour tour starting with here's where we receive the tubes to here's where we pack the finished frames/forks for shipping. After I got home I bought stock RS11 and loved it. At the handbuilt show a couple of years later I spoke with Richard about what Waterford I should buy that would be better than my RS11. He told me a new 2200 or 33 frame might save me a few ounces but they wouldn't ride any better than the RS11 that I already owned and loved. Waterford is a no "BS" company that produces terrific bikes.. I always thought that a lugged Waterford in shiny black paint with stainless lugs and fork crown was one of the prettiest bikes I ever saw.

You can call Richard just like you can call Steve Hampsten, Dave Kirk, Dave wages and other good builders so see which guy makes you feel like he's "your guy".

+1

The Boulder Road Sport I had briefly was built by Waterford and was very nicely finished from welds to paint to ride quality.

[SlowPokePete]

I bought my Waterford Frame and Fork (ST-22) almost two years ago used right here on the Paceline. It's got a stainless head tube as well as chain stays.

Last spring I found a crack in the lug at the head tube / down tube junction, and had Waterford do the repair and am so glad I did.

They make very fine bicycles in my opinion.

I know they have a new website and I've poked around a little...

Here's a few recent pics of mine, after repair and touch up (which they did an amazing job with)...

December 8, 2018 Waterford by SlowPoke Pete, on Flickr

December 8, 2018 Waterford by SlowPoke Pete, on Flickr

December 8, 2018 Waterford by SlowPoke Pete, on Flickr

SPP

[jr59]

Originally Posted by SlowPokePete

I bought my Waterford Frame and Fork (ST-22) almost two years ago used right here on the Paceline. It's got a stainless head tube as well as chain stays.

Last spring I found a crack in the lug at the head tube / down tube junction, and had Waterford do the repair and am so glad I did.

They make very fine bicycles in my opinion.

I know they have a new website and I've poked around a little...

Here's a few recent pics of mine, after repair and touch up (which they did an amazing job with)...

December 8, 2018 Waterford by SlowPoke Pete, on Flickr

December 8, 2018 Waterford by SlowPoke Pete, on Flickr

December 8, 2018 Waterford by SlowPoke Pete, on Flickr

SPP

Nice bike, what bag is that?

[bikinchris]

Richard is a straight shooter. No BS, no hard sales pitch and will not lie to make a sale. You can trust what he says. They are a very good company to work with as far as custom. Here is a town bike he built for my customer:



Personally, I have a hard time warming up to the Gunnar name, not being well schooled in Nordic legends.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

Richard is a straight shooter. No BS, no hard sales pitch and will not lie to make a sale. You can trust what he says. They are a very good company to work with as far as custom. Here is a town bike he built for my customer:



Personally, I have a hard time warming up to the Gunnar name, not being well schooled in Nordic legends.

Gunnar is named after the long time shop dog, if memory serves.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Gunnar is named after the long time shop dog, if memory serves.

The shop dog was named after a famous Norse King. It means "Warrior" in Norse.

[Rudy]

I owned eleven Waterfords at one time. They punch way, way above their weight. Never a problem with paint. As mentioned, Richard Schwinn and his crew are delightful to work with.