OT: Rear-wheel drive in light snow and all-seasons

[ravdg316]

Does anybody have experience with rear-wheel drive cars in light snow and all season tires? If you're a good driver and know your car, is it really that dangerous?

I have my eye on a RWD wagon. I know, I know -- front wheel drive with snow tires or all wheel drive with snow tires is ideal. However, I'm looking for answers from the small segment of the population in mild climates like LA who go to the mountains in the winter in their rear-wheel drive cars.

It seems I can't justify installing snow tires during the winter months for a few weeks of winter driving in the mountains, when most driving will occur in weather above 50 degrees.

Thanks!

[DfCas]

In my experience all season tires are garbage in snow. I think you need to plan on winter tires as they are infinitely better.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by ravdg316

Does anybody have experience with rear-wheel drive cars in light snow and all season tires? If you're a good driver and know your car, is it really that dangerous?

I have my eye on a RWD wagon. I know, I know -- front wheel drive with snow tires or all wheel drive with snow tires is ideal. However, I'm looking for answers from the small segment of the population in mild climates like LA who go to the mountains in the winter in their rear-wheel drive cars.

It seems I can't justify installing snow tires during the winter months for a few weeks of winter driving in the mountains, when most driving will occur in weather above 50 degrees.

Thanks!

Have had a RWD in the northeast for the last 8 years. First year I tried doing it with Conti DWS all-seasons, generally regarded as the best all-season tires out there.

The difference between the AS and summer tires was not that drastic in regular temps (50-70), and even when temps dipped down below 30 in dry conditions they performed great. However, dry below 30 and wet below 40 there was a noticeable drop in grip on the AS. For snow even a light dusting would make driving very attention-grabbing. Summer tires below 40 are rocks and you're basically asking for trouble

After that first year I picked up a set of true winter tires, and the difference was immediately noticeable in the tough conditions. Whereas with AS I was constantly driving on pins and needles, with winter tires the grip and confidence is amazing.

The problem with AS and RWD is not the predictable conditions where being a good driver helps. It's the unpredictable conditions of which no amount of skill or anticipation can come in handy and you need every available benefit. No matter how well you compensate for the non-ideal tires (driving slower, braking earlier, choosing the right line, no severe steering movements) that sudden rut, slippery patch, or unforeseen pothole will come up and overwhelm the AS compound.

Honestly, if you're only doing a few snow trips you're better off just renting a vehicle. If you must have your car at all times then invest in a set of winter tires and wheels. Buying a set in the warmer months will be about the same as an insurance deductible, and they also save you money overall since you're not exposing the other tires to harsher conditions.

[sitzmark]

What is your experience on snow ... and with the specific vehicle.

Drove for years in CO mountains in winter with RWD and all seasons. There are more "sure" options but if you drive prudently and know what to anticipate it is workable depending on conditions. You never know what conditions you're going to encounter until you encounter them.

Traction devices will help provide "go" in certain conditions when used on the drive wheels. You will not have the benefit of front steer/drive traction to assist with other situations. If you want the best opportunity for reaching your destination in mountainous heavy winter conditions ... higher ground clearance, winter tires, AWD/4WD, and traction devices at-the-ready increase the odds. No guarantees.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by ravdg316

Does anybody have experience with rear-wheel drive cars in light snow and all season tires? If you're a good driver and know your car, is it really that dangerous?

I have my eye on a RWD wagon. I know, I know -- front wheel drive with snow tires or all wheel drive with snow tires is ideal. However, I'm looking for answers from the small segment of the population in mild climates like LA who go to the mountains in the winter in their rear-wheel drive cars.

It seems I can't justify installing snow tires during the winter months for a few weeks of winter driving in the mountains, when most driving will occur in weather above 50 degrees.

Thanks!

If it's this you'll be just fine ;-)

[Ken Robb]

If you are going infrequently to Big Bear you can probably get by if you carry snow chains/cables. If you are driving to Mammoth or other places above 8,000 feet where a BIG dump is possible it's smart to rent a 4-wheel drive vehicle. If you take into account that you may be saving 600-900 miles of wear/tear on your own vehicle the expense of the rental is reduced quite a bit.

No matter what you drive the CHP may require chains. There are different requirements depending on road conditions. You can probably find the various levels on line but I have seen :any tires with chains on 2-wheel drive, all-season tires w/4-wheel drive, snow tires with 4 wheel drive, and chains for everyone.. I may have omitted a couple of variations. I still have an unused set of chains that I bought "just-in-case" for a rented Jeep Cherokee for a winter trip to Yosemite because I knew that even when the roads are ok the CHP will set up check stations to be sure that every vehicle going farther HAS chains with them in case the weather turns snowy. I was pleased to be in my 4-wheel drive rental as I drove past the guys kneeling in the snow to install chains on their 2-wheel drive cars and I wasn't disappointed that I didn't get to use my chains. Of course this is a common experience so auto supply stores won't accept returns on chains even if unused.

[JAGI410]

I have 2 RWD cars (Miata with LSD, 84 Chevy van) and the tires do make a big difference. However for me, it's the LSD/Limited slip/Posi traction that makes a huge impact on snow use. Having that extra traction to apply when accelerating, getting unstuck, or changing direction really helps. I'd confirm that the wagon you're looking at has some sort of LSD.

I have an AWD Subaru on All seasons too, and it blows the RWD cars out of the water.

[572cv]

RWD was my ride for years in Vermont. But always with snows in the winter. I just got an extra set of rims, mounted the snows and changed them myself when the first real snow storm looked imminent. With a wagon, you can add a little weight, too, in the back, if needed. Now for the qualifiers: The Peugeots I drove were generally manual transmission, allowing one to feather the traction more easily. They were exceptionally well balanced front to rear, weight wise. The rear axle had a limited slip differential. The brakes were terrific (though they took more maintenance). So, one has to be alert to all the features of the car which might improve its performance in bad weather. Finally, a tip. If you do get a RWD wagon, get to know how it handles in snow. I do that every year by going to the school parking lot after a storm and before it is plowed, and practicing skids and slides and how to come out of them. It’s fun. It has saved my bacon by training my reactions. Good luck with your decision.

[dpdan93]

tires are everything in snow

RWD, FWD, AWD, 4WD... doesn't matter

[BobbyJones]

OT but kinda related:

As a firm believer in the "true winter tire" camp but with no place to store a second set, I came across the Nokian WRG3. It's got a mountain/snowflake designation and is somehow suitable for summer use as well.

I'm about 20k in (New England summers / winters and a HOT cross country trip last summer) and have been happy.

[Jaybee]

If I had a dollar for every rental Dodge Charger I see fishtailing up or down Vail or Loveland Pass every winter... Maybe it's just the drivers, but I have to think at least some snow tires would help in these situations.

That said, if I really wanted that wagon and winter mountain driving was going to be a small percentage of the total use of the vehicle, I'd just get it, and rent an AWD SUV for my winter trips.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by dpdan93

tires are everything in snow

RWD, FWD, AWD, 4WD... doesn't matter

true.......to a certain extent. OP should just get some M/T's and be done with it



[IMG][/IMG]

[ScottW]

Subaru AWD makes all-seasons workable for the amount of snow we get around here, but even the really good all-seasons compromise winter performance significantly compared to dedicated snow tires. At least around here, when I see cars stuck on the side of the road because they can't get up a slight incline on packed snow, approximately all of those are RWD (mostly German sedans and American muscle cars). Conversely, even a lightweight RWD Miata can get around on dedicated snow tires. So yeah, get a dedicated set of wheels & tires for snow and deal with swapping them before your trips. It's a minor hassle (~30 min with a floor jack) but less inconvenient than the alternatives. Keep an eye out for cheap sets of lightly used winter tires on CL.

[Polyglot]

I learned to drive in Ontario (Canada) where you have real winter conditions to deal with. When all-seasons first came out, my parents stopped switching to winter tires and even with various Volvo RWD cars, we did not have any major issues. Nowadays, I get dedicated winter tires because of where we live and teh fact that we generally keep our cars a long time (10 plus years average). My wife used to own a 2001 Mazda 626 with FWD and it was impossible to even get traction in the snow unless you had snow tires and even then it was not great. Today, we have a BMW i3 with RWD that will outperform most AWD when all are fitted with snow tires. So much depends on the car and the conditions. As long as you stay away from summer tires and adjust your driving accordingly, you can survive the occasional snow with all-seasons.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by charliedid

If it's this you'll be just fine ;-)

I grew up with a Custom Cruiser like that! Just without the fine, artisanal 'wood' panels. Solid white and vinyl seats.

Back to the tire question. It's clear a vehicle like this is more appropriate for the extreme conditions you mention.