650b wheels - is this still a thing?

[arik]

Felt like last year everyone was 650b road plus crazy with the Cannondale slate, new Compass tires being released every week, and folks scheming on converting their 700c road bikes. This year the hype machine seems to be calming down. Was allroad 650b a fad? Maybe the extra weight, aero drag, and slower handling wasn't worth the claimed advantages of comfort and cornering?

[doomridesout]

I still ride my 650 bike a lot, very happy with the fat road concept. Last year the hype machine was working overtime but the hype is real, IMO.

[dmurphey]

there are more fat 700c tires and bikes around, but 650b with 40ish fat tires are a real pleasure to ride. you may like fat 700's where your tires and wheels are super tall. I don't think that taller is better but fatter is barely slower and nicer in general. the same discussion is happening w mountain bikes, 29 vs 27.5 vs 26. I think 700 x 25, 650 x 40, 26 x 2.3 are all similar height but progressively fatter. how fat do you want? i like 650 x 40 for bad weather, rough roads, gravel. I like 700 x 28-32 for comfy road rides. I am interested in messing around with 650 x 50-60, 650 x 2.3, 26 x 2.1-2.4 to see if even fatter is more comfy and secure but not too fat to slow me down.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by arik

Was allroad 650b a fad? Maybe the extra weight, aero drag, and slower handling wasn't worth the claimed advantages of comfort and cornering?

The whole point of going to 650b is that you can use a wider and more compliant tire without adding weight or significantly slowing handling. The question isn't 48mm 650b tires versus 23mm 700c tires, it's 48mm 650b tires versus, say, 42mm 700c tires. For situations where a hugely fat 650b road tire has benefits, a lightweight aero skinny-tire 700c setup isn't going to be appropriate.

I'm not sure that 650b lost steam, so much as gravel bikes have continued to grow into the mainstream as a market segment and the big manufacturers barely ever moved away from 700c in the first place.

[livesadventure]

650b has added steam to my all road riding . I’m converted


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[tony_mm]

So many people have problems with their back and/or neck and for them wider tires and less pressure is a big plus. And many riders are let’s say heavy. Also for them wider tires and low pressure are better. That started with 28mm road tires, then 30mm or more, then 650B etc....

[false_Aest]

Last year I got the OEM offerings from WTB, Kenda, Schwalbe, CST, and a few others.

650B in 32 - 45mm exist.
45+ w/out a significant knob profile is a little harder to find if you don't want to blow an extra $3-$5 on the FOB cost.

FWIW $3 FOB = $12-15 at the retail level. Multiply that by 2 depending on tire spec and you can see why brands have been a little hesitant to spec it.


If I could have, I would've specced the "low end" OEM WTB Horizon tires. The problem was that compared to the Kenda offerings I was still about $5 over where I wanted to be.

For us bike nerds $5 (lets just say that turns to $20 at the LBS) doesn't seem like so much but for the folks that buy a bike "off the peg" its a huge deal breaker. Esp if they're not brand loyal.
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I'm also going to add that I and one other prod. mgr I know have spent a good bit of time trying to convince our employers that different sized bikes need different sized wheels. Esp for the sub-$1000 market. Your average fitness / comfort / commuter bike should be available in 559x35, 584x32 and 622x32. Esp if you're a small brand that can't offer 5-6 sizes from XS to XXL

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by false_Aest

have spent a good bit of time trying to convince our employers that different sized bikes need different sized wheels.

Agree 100%. Looking for a bike for my partner, who feels comfortable on something smaller than a 54cm, and I'm definitely looking at 650b-compatible (584) frames so she can put on tires bigger than 35mm, and so that she won't have to deal with toe overlap.

On even smaller bikes, say sub 50cm, we should be putting folks on 26" wheels (559).

[madsciencenow]

650b has worked well for me on gravel! As others have noted it allows one to expand the width of tire without much loss in speed and a potential increase in comfort.

On a MTB I’ve never been a huge fan of smaller tires but I never ride anything super technical because I suck at bike handling.

For pure road riding I have no reason to go away from 700c


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[bicycletricycle]

My favorite bicycle has 650b x 42 tires and a big handlebar bag. I use it for everything.

[tony_mm]

Back in the day we had 650 wheels on triathlon bikes and some road bike. They were to slow as they didn‘t hold very well the momentum. Except for XXS frame 650 wheels are not the best for road bike and triathlon/ TT bikes. Same apply for 26“ wheels on MTB.

For bikes with wider tires the 650(B) make however sense.

[Mzilliox]

i think 650b is ok, but im wondering about low trail these days. my 650b low trail bike handles like crap. in fact i crashed for the first time in France because i could not counter steer floppiness on the front wheel.

so i would try 650b again, but low trail is no longer something i am interested in at all. i like to be able to take my hands off my bars, i like a bike that handles well, and i have not met a low trail bike that handles properly.

at the end of the day, folks gotta sell bikes, and riders gotta figure out what works for them. Jan Heine likes his low trail bikes and has seemingly figured out how to handle them better than me. Ill stay with racier geometry, it just works better for me. and nothing with more circumference than 36mm 700c or 42mm 650b please if i want handling and speed.

i think some folks are just dilly dallying on gravel, and so maybe for that these fat tire long wheelbase bikes are good. but for what i like to do, they are too slow in every way, but mainly handling. perhaps ive just not ridden a properly designed version yet...

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

i think 650b is ok, but im wondering about low trail these days. my 650b low trail bike handles like crap. in fact i crashed for the first time in France because i could not counter steer floppiness on the front wheel.

so i would try 650b again, but low trail is no longer something i am interested in at all. i like to be able to take my hands off my bars, i like a bike that handles well, and i have not met a low trail bike that handles properly

Low trail is meant to be paired with a front load. Without the need for that, I'd stick with normal trail figures. Though as someone who's been riding more dirt lately, I do question low trail on dirt.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

i think 650b is ok, but im wondering about low trail these days. my 650b low trail bike handles like crap. in fact i crashed for the first time in France because i could not counter steer floppiness on the front wheel.

I'm not sure what this means. There are multiple meanings of "counter steer" and, and low trail bikes tend to have less steering flop than high trail bikes.

Personally, I like the feel of low trail bikes on pavement, because of the lighter touch required on the handlebars (meaning it is easier to counter steer*). I only appreciate higher trail on rough surfaces, where the surface irregularities can generate steering torques and attempt the "yank" the bike off-line.



*Here I am using the term 'counter steer' to mean momentarily turning the front wheel in the opposite direction to initiate a turn

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by tony_mm

Back in the day we had 650 wheels on triathlon bikes and some road bike.

That was 650c, not 650b.

They were to slow as they didn‘t hold very well the momentum.

"Holding momentum" doesn't make a bike take less energy to propel forward. A bike that holds more momentum will decelerate slower but also accelerate slower, and you need to deliver just as much power in order to maintain speed.
There are hypothesis that some amount of inertial load is beneficial for pedaling, but there's no reason to believe that 700c is some magic number in this regard, especially since the wheels are a tiny fraction of the inertia of the bike+rider system.

There was never any evidence that 650c is slower for road and tri bikes than 700c, and numerous elite events were won on them. The main reason that 700c regained hold in triathlon bikes is simply that roadies are traditional and asked for it.