Rebecca Twigg is homeless

[buddybikes]

>>ignoring its real work

What is it's real work??????


Hoever I agree San Fransisco is a total pit and the thought of more IPO's there just to look at a bridge is beyond me....

[sipmeister]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

i think it all has to start with good case management.

it sounds like we can all agree that no everyone who is homeless is in that position for the same reason. good case management could at least prioritize limited resources where they will have the biggest impact.

for example: the OP about Twigg seems to point in the direction of a physical place to live is not her biggest issue, but an underlying problem that caused her to not be able to hold onto a job. to just put her in cheap housing and not address the underlying condition is a set-up for failure.

the flip side is a guy who was on the edge of finances and loses his job. he may need some cheap housing for a few months while he get back on his feet and secures new employment.

good upfront case management could identify what people need most on a case by case basis.

i dont know what the rubber meets the road implementation of that looks like, but i guess that's part of the problem.

Well said.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by Hawker

By the way, based on the number of responses here (yes I know some have responded more than once), if each of us would have sent her $20, she'd have close to $3,500. Not suggesting it...just an observation. I pray she does get some long term emotional and mental assistance.

I can't give every homeless person 20 dollars as distribution itself would be horrific, for just one person to distribute 20 dollars each, it's impossible, this is almost the reason we would need some sort of distribution system to get people like Rebecca 20 dollars from everyone that can afford it. Rebecca Twigg doesn't want my 20 dollars anyways, as she, if everyone would read the article, doesn't want individual assistance, preferring to advocate for all homeless people, a very laudable position. Something that a lot of people are obviously not understanding.


Anyways, on to the larger and more important issue of all homeless people, either all people have equal and intrinsic value and worth, or they are just the sum of their ability to provide paid labor power, which is really the argument being had in this thread. Some think that if you can't hold down a job you don't deserve anything, others see people as equals regardless of ability to function in a very specific manner, that is narrowly defined by a part of society.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by ftf

I can't give every homeless person 20 dollars as distribution itself would be horrific, for just one person to distribute 20 dollars each, it's impossible, this is almost the reason we would need some sort of distribution system to get people like Rebecca 20 dollars from everyone that can afford it. Rebecca Twigg doesn't want my 20 dollars anyways, as she, if everyone would read the article, doesn't want individual assistance, preferring to advocate for all homeless people, a very laudable position. Something that a lot of people are obviously not understanding.


Anyways, on to the larger and more important issue of all homeless people, either all people have equal and intrinsic value and worth, or they are just the sum of their ability to provide paid labor power, which is really the argument being had in this thread. Some think that if you can't hold down a job you don't deserve anything, others see people as equals regardless of ability to function in a very specific manner, that is narrowly defined by a part of society.

Well said. At some point people stopped being citizens and became taxpayers in the eyes of politicians and the vocal part of the public. Their value now can be calculated in $ not citizenship.

[oldpotatoe]

Hawker writes

Not sure it was ever supposed to be the role of the federal government to do this.

I think a little research about the late 1920s thru WWII might be in order..

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

>>ignoring its real work

What is it's real work??????


Hoever I agree San Fransisco is a total pit and the thought of more IPO's there just to look at a bridge is beyond me....

Government in a democracy is essentially a conservative institution. It is responsible for creating and sustaining markets, enforcing contracts, protecting private property, and producing systems of education and infrastructure that allow commerce to function efficiently. By Mark Funkhouser | Publisher Former mayor of Kansas City, Mo

I'll add: provide for the common defence as well.

We're also butting up against the rights specifically granted to the states in the 10th Amendment. These days, people forget that we're a nation of 50 states that are united, rather than a united country. The Feds keep pushing for more control. Seems the states are letting them have it.

M

[ftf]

Originally Posted by Gummee

I'll add: provide for the common defence as well.



We're also butting up against the rights specifically granted to the states in the 10th Amendment. These days, people forget that we're a nation of 50 states that are united, rather than a united country. The Feds keep pushing for more control. Seems the states are letting them have it.

M

Democracy a conservative institution, that's wrong, apparently he is confused as many are.

1. Democracy was not designed to protect the markets or capitalism, in fact it was born in a non capitalist society. It was designed to give people deemed citizens supposedly equal power, this is completely at odds with capitalism which is naturally an unequal power structure.

2. We are in a liberal democracy, one that mashes capitalism and democracy in a unholy matrimony, as mentioned before one is a flat structure of power, the other tiered, and are naturally at odds.

To say what you say is wrong, as well as the mayor, he is also wrong. Just because it is, doesn't mean it's supposed to be or started that way, etc.


Again, democracy is a form of governance, capitalism a form of economy, they are not natural allies.

[Vientomas]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

[ftf]

Originally Posted by Vientomas

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

All white, land owning men, some of that property other people.

[Vientomas]

Originally Posted by ftf

All white, land owning men, some of that property other people.

Is it not the foundation for the liberal democracy you described?

[ftf]

Originally Posted by Vientomas

Is it not the foundation for the liberal democracy you described?

No actually democracy even liberal democracy is older than the USA

[PQJ]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Their value now can be calculated in $ not citizenship.

That's not the fault of politics or government. It's the essence of free market capitalism.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by PQJ

That's not the fault of politics or government. It's the essence of free market capitalism.

I don't think anyone is saying this isn't true. This is exactly the conflict of democracy and capitalism. The values of one do no match the values of the other.

[AngryScientist]

There was a lot of great conversation here, and some remarkable, honest stories shared. This thread is one good example of why we DO allow off topic posts, and it's been very insightful.

it appear we have reached the point of veering far enough away from the original topic that i'm going to close it for now. if there are any updates on RT, please start a new thread.

cheers and thanks for participating all.