OT - Patriots, again- say it aint so Bill

[LJohnny]

I guess I am old enough to remember the Parcel Patriots of the 90s. I lived in Worcester MA at the time and the atmosphere surrounding the team at the time was 180 degrees of what’s now.
They fought to win tonight, so good on them to be on the big bowl!


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[Matthew]

Nope. Unitas existed. But nine Super Bowls is just ridiculous. Especially with the way the game and the athletes have changed over time. He's gone to more Super Bowls than most teams ever will in their entire existence a hundred years from now. I know, I'm a Lions fan.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

I’ve been watching the patriots go to the Super Bowl for nearly 1/3 of my life and I can’t help but root for them to lose—but at the same time you have to respect the greatness.

If anything it really shows me what it’s like to be a warriors fan and see how the rest of the country view them.

What Tom Brady is doing is beyond Joe Montana. It’s a truly unbelievable accomplishment—he’s the true GOAT

I guess go rams

reminder: Montana won 4 SBs for 2 coaches. He then went to a different team, different conference, different coach, and led them to the playoffs 2 years in a row. That team hadn't won in the playoffs for two decades, but joe took them to the afc title game. This after 2 years lost to injury. He played with a relatively famous/gross sac of fluid dangling from his elbow. quarterbacks were mauled back then.

Brady's success is remarkable. He's also been in a remarkably stable system in a qb centric league. It's a different game now.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Nope. Unitas existed. But nine Super Bowls is just ridiculous. Especially with the way the game and the athletes have changed over time. He's gone to more Super Bowls than most teams ever will in their entire existence a hundred years from now. I know, I'm a Lions fan.

And plays in an era where QBs are given unprecedented protection due to the rules. No way Tommy Boy is playing today if he dealt with the kind of punishment Unitas and basically anyone else had to deal with.

So does that make Bart Start the second greatest QB ever if we're talking title game appearances?

[Bruce K]

Not just SB appearances.

Overall performance - yards, touchdowns, winning percentage, playoff performances.

Agreed it’s a different era but you have to agree that players are bigger, faster, stronger now

I wonder how some of the older players would fare in today’s league.... probably not as well as they did back then

So we can only compare each in their time and no one has done it better than TB12

BK

[superbowlpats]

Great game to watch. With the way the Pats have played on the road this year I gave them no chance in Arrowhead. But the Pats had a game plan and executed it. Looked like Andy Reid simply took out his game plan that he uses each week and hoped Mahomes would bail him out. The athleticism that kid has is off the charts.

[unterhausen]

The refs didn't exactly cover themselves in glory yesterday. Especially giving the Rams the win with that no-call. But the blow to the head call against KC was pretty egregious too.

I was definitely pulling for KC, I feel like the SB is going to be a reprise of the Pats vs. the Chargers.

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

So we're all just assuming Johnny Unitas never existed?

johnny unitas ...theres a haircut you could set your watch by...

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by Spdntrxi

GOAT no doubts... guy is amazing


- cowboy fan

Oh please, he's a freakin' chump. His success is a product of how silly the NFL has become at protecting the QB. Go watch the 70's and watch how those QB's got the crap beat out of them and still produced. My man, Terry Bradshaw, comes to mind. We've all seen how time and again when a team starts pounding on Brady he folds and goes away for that game. There is no way he would have made it back in the day when QBs could actually be hit. Brady is not even close to being the greatest and never will be.

Brady can

[djg21]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

The refs didn't exactly cover themselves in glory yesterday. Especially giving the Rams the win with that no-call. But the blow to the head call against KC was pretty egregious too.

I was definitely pulling for KC, I feel like the SB is going to be a reprise of the Pats vs. the Chargers.

And the Pats receivers were being mugged on almost every play. I understanding “letting them play,” but it sure looked to me like the Officials had decided that the Pats had won too often and it was KC’s turn.

[unterhausen]

we tend to see what we want to see, I'm sure the pats defense was manhandling the KC receivers too. They have been allowing this all season. I suspect it is in reaction to the safety-based rules changes that have given offenses a big advantage. I think "defensive holding" now means "threw the receiver to the ground"

[William]

People are funny…

“Brady is not the best, he sucks, he couldn’t play in the old league, he would get mauled, ripped apart, beat to crap and he would suck….he just couldn’t compete…”

How many times have we had threads here where people complain about hard hits, wearing helmets, increased safety, concussions and TBI, etc….. The rules changed for a reason…players have become bigger, stronger, and faster. Let the current crop of linemen and linebackers (take them back in time or today) play by the old rules and how many QB’s do you think would last without getting annihilated? Just about none of them. The old school guys were mean, but no where near the athleticism of current players. By today’s standards going to practice, partying drinking Miller lite, eating steak, and going to practice just doesn’t cut it anymore. Rules changed for a reason.

So, like them or not, in the present, within the current timeline that exists, by the stats, Brady is the GOAT. Belllacheck…Likely another GOAT. The Patriots, one of the best franchises in the NFL to date.

NFL dynasties come and go, but B&B&P has had a longer run than most. You can hate them for it, but that doesn’t change the fact that they got it done when they needed to get it done.






W.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Oh please, he's a freakin' chump. His success is a product of how silly the NFL has become at protecting the QB. Go watch the 70's and watch how those QB's got the crap beat out of them and still produced. My man, Terry Bradshaw, comes to mind. We've all seen how time and again when a team starts pounding on Brady he folds and goes away for that game. There is no way he would have made it back in the day when QBs could actually be hit. Brady is not even close to being the greatest and never will be.

Brady can

No doubt that QBs (and frankly, other positions as well) are more protected in today's game. But, I am not sure how you use that premise to conclude that his success is the result of keeping QBs safer.

For one, he himself missed a season due to a low hit. And many QBs in the modern era have been injured and missed all or significant portions of seasons. Aaron Rogers and Dashaun Watson come to mind.

And, more to the point, every other QB (maybe with the exception of Cam Newton) is enjoying the same benefit of the rules -- and Brady is consistently among the best performers at his position. I don't see 31 other QBs making it to the conference title game every year.

I can subscribe to the notion that comparing great players across time is problematic. Hey, how would Eddy Merckx fair in the peloton today? But if you are trying to argue that he isn't atleast the greatest player of the modern era, you are looking at the world through blinders.

The only argument that I can see on the more favorable rules, is that he has been able to player longer, gain more experience, and thus be more prepared for games (so he has an edge) and accumulate more statistics along the way. Which is surely true. So you'd have to apply the same view on records set by Peyton Manning and Drew Brees through their careers. If you wanted to argue that, you could standardize the comparisons, and discount wins late in careers. Just look at the first 4 seasons when Brady was leading the Patriots. 3 super bowl wins. So, the early years were actually the most successful -- undercutting the "experience gained by longevity thanks to the more favorable rules" argument.

[rwsaunders]

NE should send a check to the KC lineman who was called for a neutral zone infraction and the roughing the passer call on Jones? Maybe because it was Brady. Even an amateur football follower would have to agree that the refs had real influence over the outcome of yesterday’s two games. As for the blown PI call on the Rams defender, it’s hard to feel sorry for Sean Payton...the call just happened to go against his team.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by William

People are funny…

“Brady is not the best, he sucks, he couldn’t play in the old league, he would get mauled, ripped apart, beat to crap and he would suck….he just couldn’t compete…”

How many times have we had threads here where people complain about hard hits, wearing helmets, increased safety, concussions and TBI, etc….. The rules changed for a reason…players have become bigger, stronger, and faster. Let the current crop of linemen and linebackers (take them back in time or today) play by the old rules and how many QB’s do you think would last without getting annihilated? Just about none of them. The old school guys were mean, but no where near the athleticism of current players. By today’s standards going to practice, partying drinking Miller lite, eating steak, and going to practice just doesn’t cut it anymore. Rules changed for a reason.

So, like them or not, in the present, within the current timeline that exists, by the stats, Brady is the GOAT. Belllacheck…Likely another GOAT. The Patriots, one of the best franchises in the NFL to date.

NFL dynasties come and go, but B&B&P has had a longer run than most. You can hate them for it, but that doesn’t change the fact that they got it done when they needed to get it done.

W.

I see the Pats a bit like Lance Armstrong. They just manage to cheat better than everyone else and get away with it. There's just been too many questionable things by this team. Oh and I stand by my comments. Brady cannot and couldn't take the beating that many truly great GB's have. He has never exhibited that sort of mental and physical toughness. He's just been protected by the rules and has thrived in the protected environment. He's only the GOAT if that stand for Greatest Overhyped All Time.

Official Patriot hater and PROUD OF IT!