why not hardtail?

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by sparky33

What's wrong with a hardtail?

My mtb is a Santa Cruz Highball 27.5 hardtail with 2.3s and a lightweight build kit. I ride it quite a lot to the point of cannibalizing cx territory too. My local terrain is variable - lots of trails connected by short road segments. Not a lot of elevation, some technical stuff, plenty of single track and fire-roads, some rocks&roots. Typical northeast stuff. I'm a cross country mtb'er.

Lately, I've been getting the nudge to go with a full-suspension bike, from friends and from my inner evil self. A few demo's of XC/trail full-suspension bikes...Santa Cruz, Scott, etc. tell me there are some great options. Certainly, full-suspension is faster going downhill, and the climbing traction is noticeable too. The thing is, none of them are as fun as my hardtail. I think about the next mtb, and I'm still envisioning the hardtail that I already have. It's simple, lightweight and quick, like the BMX bike I rode as a kid. I like picking interesting lines and sometimes not getting it right the first time around. Maybe one of those rowdy hardtail trail bikes could be it. I don't know. Am I crazy for not jumping on the full-sus thing? Should I just get over it?

I gave my hard tail to my sis. I had two places to ride it. A very challenging rock strewn course and a seven mile gravel trail around a lake.

On the challenging course it clanged and crashed, that course is better traversed on a full suspension bike.

On the lake trail I took my cyclocross bike and it was so much more fun.

You terrain may be more hard tail leaning but for my terrain I don't see the need for one.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm going to pile on with the rest of the replies here...

I've been riding hardtails since I started riding offroad 15 years ago. At one point I got a Trek Superfly (short-travel full suspension XC 29er) to pair with my (at the time) rigid SS. It was fine. But when I went to the garage to grab a bike for a ride, I nearly always grabbed the SS; it just felt more fun. The only time I really, really loved having the Superfly was during a 13-hr lap-style mountain bike race - i could go fast way more comfortably with less effort. But I only do a few races a year, so I sold it.

Nowadays, I mtb only a couple times a month. My only mountain bike is a rigid Kona Unit (from 2008!) with a 1x drivetrain and 29+F/27.5+R wheels. I love the rigid bike with plus tires - simple but noticeably more comfortable than with skinnier tires.

Actually, I guess I should mention I have a Diamondback Mason, one of these long-low-slack, new-school 29ers with 120mm of front travel, a dropper post, and 2x10 drivetrain. I got it to see what the latest 29er hardtails are like. And it's fine, definitely more confidence-inspiring on the downhills. But I just haven't bonded with it. So it's up for sale.

I guess it's telling that I'm thinking of getting the new Jones SWB complete once it's sold!

[quickfeet]

I always have a FS and an HT in my garage. Why limit yourself to just one experience? Some days I prefer my SSMTB And sometimes I enjoy a rip on my FS when I feel lazy about line choice.

[sparky33]

My regular spots are near home and work because I get out only when the stars align for a moment.

Cutler@Needham is by the office, so I am there ...all...the...time. Needham town forest, Dover: Caryl/Noanet/Hale, all over the spiderweb of trails in Wellesley, Weston and Lincoln. The whole gamut of bikes is in attendance. Haven’t really been further west to some notable spots. What’s your favorite?

Lately I’ve been spending a good deal of time in Martha’s Vineyard, and the trails there are incredible. The road riding is popular, hum-drum and dangerous, the paved bikeways are fine for getting around, but the trails are where it’s at on island and no one seems to know it. Shhhh! A significant portion of the island is held as conservation land, and some dedicated folks are cutting and keeping up the trails. I’ve had some incredible trails rides there recently. Cross country heaven with some sleeper technical spots too. Two of the best flow trails I’ve seen are hiding there.

Originally Posted by merlinmurph

Hey sparky, I'm in your neighborhood and am familiar with the terrain around here. Curious where you ride.

I agree with others in that it depends on where you ride, who you ride with, and how you ride. There's a lot of stuff around here where a hardtail is perfect - Callahan SP, Upton SF, etc. Then,there are lots of riders at Vietnam with pretty burly FS bikes.

I, too, am more of an XC guy, favoring a hardtail or a XC oriented FS bike. More of an uphill guy than downhill.

Since you've demo'd some FS bikes, I think you've answered your own question. Maybe you just want some validation? It's all about fun, so go where the fun is for you.

Enjoy your ride,

Murph

[sparky33]

So so true. There is a not a second though about the handful of drop bar bikes in the basement. The double standard doesn’t make any sense.

Originally Posted by quickfeet

I always have a FS and an HT in my garage. Why limit yourself to just one experience? Some days I prefer my SSMTB And sometimes I enjoy a rip on my FS when I feel lazy about line choice.

[sparky33]

Yes, and I wonder why I see folks seemingly over-biked around here. I’m not a tough guy, yet I don’t often feel like my bike is holding me back.

Originally Posted by Burnette

You terrain may be more hard tail leaning but for my terrain I don't see the need for one.

[sparky33]

Good counterpoint. Local terrain, and even one’s perception of it, matters greatly.

Originally Posted by Burnette

I gave my hard tail to my sis. I had two places to ride it. A very challenging rock strewn course and a seven mile gravel trail around a lake.

On the challenging course it clanged and crashed, that course is better traversed on a full suspension bike.

On the lake trail I took my cyclocross bike and it was so much more fun.

You terrain may be more hard tail leaning but for my terrain I don't see the need for one.

[peanutgallery]

I have a fuse, a short travel stumpjumper and a long travel stumpjumper. I ride the long travel pretty much all the time and have not gelled with the short travel. For the record, the LT bike weighs over 30 pounds, but I don't care. I force the boy to ride to fuse as he's young/dumb and needs to suffer

The long travel is more fun and more forgiving in the wilds of Michaux. I have done my share of time on hardtail, fully rigid, single speed etc...and now I wonder why because they kinda sucked. Bikes are regional, but if you want a 650 hardtail, more power to you. I will bet you a 30 pack you'll be singing a different tune after a hard day riding it around here in the rocks

Modern trail bike technology is pretty incredible and the new stuff really works

[Marc40a]

I ride a rigid 29+ and all my buds ride FS.

They’re faster on the technical stuff. I stand a lot more and shift my weight all over the bike. I get sore as hell but it’s refreshing after road riding all week. I think my bones need a little impact at this age (46) to maintain density - road riding and surfing, isn’t going to do it.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

I have a fuse, a short travel stumpjumper and a long travel stumpjumper. I ride the long travel pretty much all the time and have not gelled with the short travel. For the record, the LT bike weighs over 30 pounds, but I don't care. I force the boy to ride to fuse as he's young/dumb and needs to suffer

The long travel is more fun and more forgiving in the wilds of Michaux. I have done my share of time on hardtail, fully rigid, single speed etc...and now I wonder why because they kinda sucked. Bikes are regional, but if you want a 650 hardtail, more power to you. I will bet you a 30 pack you'll be singing a different tune after a hard day riding it around here in the rocks

Modern trail bike technology is pretty incredible and the new stuff really works

My experience also!

I've had many hardtails and FS mtbs over the years, at one point recently I had 3 hardtails and 4 FS bikes in my garage, all high end. The new school geometry of some hardtails like the Kona Honzo are really nice. As nice as the Honzo is it can't compared to modern FS bikes in rocky, rooty, technical trails. A FS mtb will climb better, descend better, faster, safer and IMHO much more fun.

[joosttx]

When you are young it doesnt matter. The kid killed a 1000ft up and down today. I have to say compared to a gravel bike a modern-day hardtail is so more comfortable.

[sparky33]

Yes, maybe, yes and yes.

Experimenting with proper flat pedals and five tens has been a game changer for me. Crazy grippy, and yet perfect for moving in and around the bike. I suspect flats reinforce good body position fundamentals too. Clips aren’t/weren’t like that because the bike is fixed-on no matter what I do badly.
The experience brings back some of that BMX feeling I was talking about, and maybe that reconciles the incongruous look of flat pedals and sneaks on a carbon cross country bike.

Originally Posted by 2metalhips

I also enjoy the low maintenance. All my friends are on fs, the only advantage I see is a bit more speed on descents if that is important to you. To me the key is body position and really low pressure and tubeless tires. Of course this is for wheels on the ground riding/xc. If you wanted to go as fast as possible/racing or jumping off rocks, fs might be the better path in NE anyway.

[sparky33]

So much goodness happening here. He gets it.

Originally Posted by joosttx

When you are young it doesnt matter. The kid killed a 1000ft up and down today. I have to say compared to a gravel bike a modern-day hardtail is so more comfortable.

[Peter P.]

The extra maintenance, the weight, the creaks and clicks; I'll pass on suspension, period.

I ride the road to my trails and don't want to drag the extra weight around. Carbon fiber is lightweight, you say? Well; when it gets abraded by a rock, the party's over, which is not so with metal.

And the extra speed you gain with suspension can get you hurt more when you crash. No suspension, or at least in the OP's case merely a front suspension, will keep your speed down and your injuries less severe.

So I suggest the OP stick with his hardtail and enjoy the ride.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

The extra maintenance, the weight, the creaks and clicks; I'll pass on suspension, period.

I ride the road to my trails and don't want to drag the extra weight around. Carbon fiber is lightweight, you say? Well; when it gets abraded by a rock, the party's over, which is not so with metal.

And the extra speed you gain with suspension can get you hurt more when you crash. No suspension, or at least in the OP's case merely a front suspension, will keep your speed down and your injuries less severe.

So I suggest the OP stick with his hardtail and enjoy the ride.

Hardtails are fun, no doubt. But they are not as fast (up or down, assuming weight is in a similar ballpark) and you can ride faster, farther, and be less beat up afterwards.

I've done multiple timed runs over XC terrain (rooty, not very rocky, but very fast and lots of cornering - typical SE terrain) and the FS bikes are faster. Interestingly enough, 2.35" tires (or even a little bigger) are faster too, until they get >850g each.

The Kona Hei Hei Trail DL Carbon I ride weighs 23 lbs with pedals, makes no extraneous noises, has beefed-up carbon layups in rock strike-prone areas, has geometry that 3 years ago would have been considered enduro, and is crazy fast. Compared with a HT, it loses maybe a bit on pavement - maybe - but I can lock out the suspension if needed. The FS bikes corner so much better because both ends compress when cornering, vs. the front diving, so geometry stays more consistent, and the traction is amazing.

They feel more "sluggish" because you feel less of the trail. It's like driving a racing kart - 40 MPH feels like 80 because you get so much feedback from the pavement - that's the HT. The FS is more like a modern car - 80 feels like 40 because you are so isolated from road feedback. But the watch doesn't lie.

One last thing we've learned over the years - riding a HT, or rigid bike, or CX bike on trails doesn't do a damn thing to improve your skills - it just forces you to look for smooth lines, which are rarely the fastest line. Suspension allows you to take better lines with less regard for trail irregularities. So do big tires, to a point. Every time I ride a HT or rigid bike for a few weeks, I have to retrain my brain to ride fast again after I get on the FS.

They are all fun, but one is better. There's a reason why all the XCO guys (and many women, though not all) are on FS bikes now, despite their resistance to adding any weight to bikes.