On Paper vs. In Practice

[weisan]

Cervelo R3, Cyfac Absolu
Both Carbon

On paper....they are lighter...much lighter. Stiffer in the right places. Compliant too. Super bike category. In the eyes of some, probably even look nicer from an aesthetics standpoint. Definitely more up to date. 11 speed. Tubulars. Carbon wheels. Low spoke count . 25 mm tires. Racing geometry.



Now moving over to this corner, we got two older gentlemen.

2003 Merlin Agilis Titanium
(Year unknown) Jamis Quest Elite, Reynolds 631 steel



In practice...heavier. By at least 3-4 pounds. 9 & 10 speed. cables sticking out in front. 32 hole alloy wheels built by yours truly. 25-28mm tires. Endurance geometry. handlebar installed mile high.

This is NOT about which is superior.

This is NOT in support of curmudgeon.

This is NOT putting down carbon and new tech.

So what's this about?

Simple.

The Merlin and the Jamis are my two favorite bikes at the moment.

It suited my kind of riding better.

If I had just walked into a bike shop today to buy a bike, more likely than not, I will walk out with a carbon bike more like the Cervelo and the Cyfac, and I will miss out the opportunity to try a Merlin or a Jamis...which is a shame. That is all.

[Blown Reek]

The flaw in this logic is that you would never walk into a bike shop and purchase a new bike.

[weisan]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

The flaw in this logic is that you would never walk into a bike shop and purchase a new bike.

That's probably true. But I am talking about others who might be new to the sports.
Also, never say never.
Less logic. More emotion. Let's not let this little so-called flaw of yours derail the discussion.

[Blown Reek]

Originally Posted by weisan

That's probably true. But I am talking about others who might be new to the sports.

I don't think that someone will be cross-shopping these bikes. Given the choice of "new" vs. "old piece of s hit", most people looking to get into cycling won't have the luxury of your insight, and will ignorantly get something that's new and looks cool.

[bigbill]

I'm a luddite. The newest bike I own is a custom fillet brazed steel gravel bike I got last year. The bike that sees the most miles is a 2009 Serotta Ti. The other three road bikes I have are tig welded, lugged, and fillet brazed steel. Each of those three steel frames ride better than the Serotta. The Serotta is much lighter than the steel bikes, but on the road I don't notice the weight, just when I'm moving bikes around in the garage.

The Serotta sees the most miles because this is hot and humid NE Texas and I sweat all over the bike in the summer. No paint to chip, nothing to rust. Just a quick wipe down after a ride. I'm moving to NW Arizona next month, the steel bikes will see more action in the desert.

[sitzmark]

So what is the point? Not being critical ... just what is it that we're trying to get at?

New riders don't know what they don't know. They won't know if they like a carbon "super bike" or any other bike on the rack. They still won't know any different until they buy their second bike or ride another bike extensively. Then a third bike, fourth bike, fifth bike.... Only then will they know which one(s) they like best.

Presumably they will make the first purchase based on what they know at the time - what they like aesthetically, what fits their budget, what they've been told by people they trust, etc. And finally what a shop rep presents to them as choices based on what gets communicated/drawn out. Some sales people manipulate opportunity and some don't give a damn. Some actually care and do their best to build a relationship. I suspect the latter is the most common scenario but I have no factual data to back it up.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek View Post
The flaw in this logic is that you would never walk into a bike shop and purchase a new bike.

Originally Posted by weisan

That's probably true. But I am talking about others who might be new to the sports.
Also, never say never.
Less logic. More emotion. Let's not let this little so-called flaw of yours derail the discussion.

Yikes, here we go again...

[weisan]

Originally Posted by sitzmark

So what is the point? Not being critical ... just what is it that we're trying to get at?

I am still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.

Mark pal, I didn't take it that way at all, that's a fair question. I wasn't exactly sure myself when I started this thread a short while ago. It was just something sitting inside my head and I thought "well, why don't I just put it down in writing, see where it goes..."

I am thinking now, maybe one of the aspects I was trying to pursue is just what the title says...on paper vs in practice, that there's a gap in terms of expectations and reality when it comes to selecting and recommending a bike.

[FlashUNC]

This just in: People have personal preferences and taste can be subjective. Film at 11.

[weisan]

Let's go past the obvious.

It's kinda like looking at the resume of a potential candidate.

On paper, it says one thing.

After you hire them, they may turn out to be something else.

But often, that's all you have to go with. Yes, asking the right questions and reviewing references will help to a certain extent.

Just as a test ride will help determine if a bike suits you...to an extent.

[jemoryl]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

The flaw in this logic is that you would never walk into a bike shop and purchase a new bike.

That is a flaw?

[semdoug]

The funny thing about this, for me anyway, is that in the early 2000s the Agilis was a pretty special bike. In my opinion it still is, but alas times and preferences change. Fifteen years from now will some folks be looking at the Cervelo or Cyfac as I look at the Agilis, as a true classic? I realize this probably doesn't really address the paper v. practice question, more sentiment for me with age.

[93KgBike]

Some people buy the same flavor ice cream every time; some people buy different flavors; but nobody buys all the flavors every time.

[cmg]

currently one of my favorite rides is a Independent fabrication SSR that I got off a forum member, fits me really well. The look on other riders when I tell them it's stainless steel ........and I have a Cervelo RS. I'm not fast, never was and i'm not fast on the IF SSR but she is a nice ride. It's hard to convince anyone the latest and greatest might not be that great.

[jtbadge]

I don't get owning a stack of bikes that don't suit your riding style.

Bike hoarding is so weird.