Amateur racing teams - any good models?

[Gummee]

What is it the bass player from the Eagles said? In my experience all rock bands are on the verge of splitting up all the time.

Something like that anyways...

So... I don't have a prescription 'cause the last team I rode for other than my own bike brand kicked me off the team for reasons unknown to me mid-season. Never have figured that one out.

M

[kgreene10]

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments. As expected, doesn’t sound like there’s a magic formula - in some instances, spontaneous consensus borne of friendship or shared values works and in some instances, Hobbesian (benevolent) leadership. Both routes seem to require curating membership which is something we can’t easily do. As a result, I think we have to shoot for a lower bar of race organization.

A bunch of the comments also incline toward “know thyself”. I’m a 49 year old Cat 3 who sometimes gets a top-10 finish. I won’t become a 2 and will probably do more masters racing over the next few years. I’m currently really exhausted by the team drama that seems totally outsized to me but is somehow impossible to just ignore.

So I think I’m leaning toward organizing a few guys without sponsorship and asking the question “would I want to carpool for six hours with this guy?” as the membership litmus.

[BobC]

That is probably the best answer.

You have to expect that racers at different levels & different stages of life (and bike racing) will have different priorities. Your best bet is to find a set of guys who "fit" with your priorities.

My litmus test was always "would I enjoy spending a whole weekend with these guys." I ended up with a small but very tight group who enjoyed racing together & hanging out together. Never regretted that decision.

[batman1425]

The most fun club I was a part of was where we were small were and all friends. Associated benefits were not so good - no real useful sponsorships mostly due to the size - less of a payback for the sponsors.

The most support I got as a member was from a much bigger club with tiered membership rewards. Joining was free, but if you wanted benefits, you paid a modest due which largely went to supporting the junior program (coaching, equipment) and race paybacks. If we raced and flew the colors, the club would subsidize entry fees on a distance and cost of entry scale. Races that cost more to attend (further away or bigger races with higher fees) we got a bit more subsidy. Because it was a bigger club, we also got better benefits through via sponsors. The downside is I only got to know a few people on the team well and it was a bit of a shotgun blast of skill levels, life situations, etc. Nice folks though and well organized with a good history in the area.

At the end of the day, no matter how seriously you take it, its still all just for fun. None of us are paying the bills with this stuff. My most successful road season, where I took home a much higher than average amount of prize money, I was still many hundreds of dollars in the hole after all the expenses. The drama kills the fun for me. Whatever you need to do to find a drama free team environment, do that.

[Hellgate]

CAT 5...team, that's hysterical...

CAT 4...team, that's hysterical too...

CAT 3...team, okay, now we're getting somewhere...

Says the 50+ Master...

[John H.]

I think a successful team needs a few things-
1.) a clear mission statement
2.) a clear program and clear expectations
3.) equal treatment for all riders
4.) all members are invited- and vetted prior to being invited

If a team is all or mostly about looking cool or getting stuff it is likely doomed.

If there is no clear cut program or expectations it can end up being a team full of riders who talk a big game in November, then never show up.

Don’t be a team full of grown men playing dress up.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

CAT 5...team, that's hysterical...

CAT 4...team, that's hysterical too...

CAT 3...team, okay, now we're getting somewhere...

Says the 50+ Master...

I've been on a few teams with successful Cat 4 groups. Mostly populated by people that have lots of experience but not a lot of time to train. As a result they can read races really well and work together quite effectively. In fact its a really helpful environment for developing riders that want to move up at an accelerated rate and helped make the P1/2/3 and Masters groups in the same club even stronger.

[peanutgallery]

Cat 4/5: Clueless...but having fun

Cat 3: Delusional

Cat 1/2/"Pro": Unemployable

Originally Posted by Hellgate

CAT 5...team, that's hysterical...

CAT 4...team, that's hysterical too...

CAT 3...team, okay, now we're getting somewhere...

Says the 50+ Master...

[benb]

I was on a pretty large team, even though I only stayed with it in Cat 5/4.

We had a somewhat substantial income stream through running a weekly race series. 3 races every sunday, I think we had a field limit on the C race of 50 people and 100 on the A/B races. On light days we would combine the A + B race. It was something like $10 to get in. The only cost for the race was paying a police detail + official, which was a pretty substantial cost AFAICT.

We had sponsorship too. Basically what it all meant was there was realistically money to pay for everyone to get free tires/chains/cables/bar tape, etc.. if the finances were handled carefully. But they weren't necessarily handled carefully, and while I was there it was discovered someone had been stealing from the club's bank account. I basically ended my membership before that was ever sorted out.

We had organization even at the Cat 4/5 level.. because the team had a long history of mentoring new riders on how to ride as a team. We could pull off 3-4 man leadouts cause we practiced them and they generally worked well in crits, we had a few people who were natural sprinters and they would get podiums/primes pretty regularly. Everything outside of a crit was way less organized because there was no guarantee we could have 3-4 guys showing up for a road race who had the right body type/fitness on that day to do a job for the team. And deciding who was going to be the leader that day was always a weird mess.

I didn't really know what was going on with the 2/3 riders on the team, they kept to themselves although it was obvious their lifestyle/training was way more committed. They generally weren't doing much volunteering for the club at all, it felt more like the 4/5 guys were doing the gruntwork to keep the club going and the 2/3 guys were just there to race.

I felt like the volunteer part was actually a really sticky part of it all. Volunteering meant you were spending time on cycling without a training benefit. Training already takes a ridiculous amount of time to be competitive, and then you're volunteering for 3-4 hours on a Sunday and you've now spent that time but haven't trained on one of your weekend days. If you were working a serious job it was a big impediment, cause you might have been racing the other day and now you might not have a day for a long ride to maintain endurance. I was single at the time, it all worked for me the first year because I was working as a contractor with a strict 40 hour/week cap on my work. The second year I was a FTE at a startup and it was near impossible to get in racing shape and my seasons sucked from then on till I gave it up. I pretty much knew I was never going to put in the time commitment to be a 2/3 type rider.

The racing was exciting but I don't miss much of the rest. If I was starting a team I'd almost say "no riders who are married/have kids." :P No way I want to be doing this stuff now that I'm married with a family.

We didn't have "wars" AFAICT but it was a revolving door of members at any level of racing. The 2/3 guys were constantly shuffling off to other teams and the 4/5 guys were constantly coming in new and then 50% or more would give up by the next year.

I agree 4/5 can be chaotic but at least back then it was not all clueless.

[kgreene10]

Some really quotable content in this thread and, more importantly, some great stories about people’s experiences as racers and team members over the years.

I’ve taken stock over the past few days as the team infighting reaches fever pitch. I’m a 49 year old Cat 3 with a family and a demanding career. Why am I allowing this to occupy headspace? The camaradierie level has been low, the angst level high, and the strategic benefit in races questionable at best. I think I just want to race with a few guys who make for good carpool conversation. That should have been obvious but when my club of nine years spawned a dedicated race team two years ago, I just sort of got sucked in. Thanks for letting me talk it out on the forum.

[11.4]

Originally Posted by kgreene10

Some really quotable content in this thread and, more importantly, some great stories about people’s experiences as racers and team members over the years.

I’ve taken stock over the past few days as the team infighting reaches fever pitch. I’m a 49 year old Cat 3 with a family and a demanding career. Why am I allowing this to occupy headspace? The camaradierie level has been low, the angst level high, and the strategic benefit in races questionable at best. I think I just want to race with a few guys who make for good carpool conversation. That should have been obvious but when my club of nine years spawned a dedicated race team two years ago, I just sort of got sucked in. Thanks for letting me talk it out on the forum.

The best parts of racing are often the long drives together in a car, sitting around before a race watching the other classes race, and then sitting around afterwards, a nice dinner together, and a drive home. In some ways, racing is like scuba diving -- an hour or two of actual event with a couple days' worth of travel, waiting, prepping, dining, and recovering.