Now Shimano may ditch the hanger?

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by benb

Rear wheel skid would be fine, the question is would it break spokes first.

It'd be dumb if we see this take a favorite out of contention at a big race, but then again if it's strong enough to break spokes it would have broken the hanger on a traditional system.

Oh it'll definitely break spokes, but I believe that's pretty common even with "sacrificial" hangers. It's just a matter of how strong/thick the stick or stuck object is, and what is the path of least resistance.

Originally Posted by benb

You want to talk about proprietary parts I accidentally bought a Specialized stem last week.

Got it home and did a ***. Neither the LBS employee or I had realized Specialized came up with a proprietary stem -> steerer interface for their Future Shocks. He came out with 2-3 stems and I grabbed the big S one because it was the right rise/length.

It was so far outside of what I thought they would do I never even looked closely at it.

Why the LBS had a stock of those stems is beyond me too considering they will probably sell single digit #s of Future shock bikes a year. I bet Specialized mandates they have to have them in stock.

When I tried out the newest Diverge the geo was great but I hated the Future Shock, even in the lockout position you're still stuck with a proprietary stem, with a heavy shock at the top of the bike that needs servicing at least once a year.

This youtuber created a "delete" which should work. He tried out a prototype a while ago, but now seems to be in the final stage with a vid he just recently posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9B...l=TheBikeSauce

Just sucks that the 150g delete had to be created instead of the choice of a rigid fork which probably would have been an additional 50g of carbon

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by benb

Rear wheel skid would be fine, the question is would it break spokes first.

In my experience, there may be some rear wheel skidding, but if it is a hefty enough stick something else will be break until the rear wheel can no longer turn. That which breaks may be the spokes, the derailleur and/or the hanger.

Originally Posted by benb

It'd be dumb if we see this take a favorite out of contention at a big race, but then again if it's strong enough to break spokes it would have broken the hanger on a traditional system.

I've seen cases where something gets lodged between the tire and the frame that caused a wheel to skid, and the bike was still rideable after the foreign object was removed. But at a smaller radius (in the spokes or inside the loop of chain) the torques and forces are higher and the components are weaker, and that often results in a part breakage, and that would end a race regardless.

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

Kind of. The UDH is "proprietary" in the way centerlock rotors are proprietary. With a rear dropout designed for UDH, you can use any normal RD with the UDH hanger. However, if you want to use a "direct mount" RD you need the right dropout. Kind of like how you can use 6 bolt rotors on centerlock with an adapter, but not the other way around.

That's a great way to explain it.

[sailorboy]

I think an AI Bot is foisting this upon us. We need to start a commune together in New England somewhere and ride this out. Surely there is enough rim brake, mechanical group parts hoarded on this forum to last a few generations.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by benb

I think we're only talking about MTBs here but if they push that to road is it going to make wheel changes even slower than a normal disc brake wheel change would be? I can't really tell if once that derailleur is mounted it just sits there and the thru axle goes right through it as if it's not there at all. I can see threads inside it.

I haven't bought a disc road bike.. my MTB with a through axle is definitely slower than a QR, are thru axles taking over the road bikes too?

HA, yup, get a wheel and have the rear der fall on the ground...then scurry trying to get the axle thru the rear der, and thru the hub, then tighten the whole mess..sounds like a great idea...

[benb]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

HA, yup, get a wheel and have the rear der fall on the ground...then scurry trying to get the axle thru the rear der, and thru the hub, then tighten the whole mess..sounds like a great idea...

You would hope they are smarter than that.. My MTB has the threaded side of the TA on the non-drive side. You'd hope this derailleur threads itself and locks down onto the drive side dropout and then the non-threaded side of the TA just slides through it like a normal TA equipped frame.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Isn’t sram doing the same thing?

https://apple.news/AJ4w_w40uSMipj1LImewVOA

What does "direct mount" mean? Seems like an overused/nebulous buzzword. Seems like the component is mounted directly to the frame. So, on my bike the derailleur hanger is not removeable/replaceable. So by this definition, is my rear derailleur direct mount?

[thermalattorney]

Originally Posted by MikeD

No. SRAM UDH (Universal Derailleur Hanger) is an actual, replaceable derailleur hanger. https://apple.news/AJ4w_w40uSMipj1LImewVOA

What does "direct mount" mean? Seems like an overused/nebulous buzzword. Seems like the component is mounted directly to the frame. So, on my bike the derailleur hanger is not removeable/replaceable. So by this definition, is my rear derailleur direct mount?

DM means attached to the frame without the use of a hanger. Your frame still has a hanger, therefor it's not DM.

This is in keeping with how the term is more commonly used in the world of cranks to denote the mounting of something without an intermediary, such as DM chainrings.

[unterhausen]

Shimano had direct mount derailleurs a long time ago, it's just that it wasn't a good design so it was always used with a hanger. Also, it was prior to TA taking over.

The part of the shimano design that attaches to the frame doesn't move, so wheel changes should be the same. It seems like the shimano design could use a regular hanger without much issue.

[Gasman1440]

Wow

[eddief]

He is raging against the potential proprietary approach of the two big guys forcing the making of frames incompatible with a hundred years of derailleur mounting history.