Now Shimano may ditch the hanger?

[mcteague]

Hmmmm.....

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shima...hanger-patent/

Is Shimano about to ditch derailleur hangers? Patent reveals direct-mount derailleur design


Tim

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Hmmmm.....

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shima...hanger-patent/

Is Shimano about to ditch derailleur hangers? Patent reveals direct-mount derailleur design


Tim

Gotta wonder how long bike stuff makers will dance around the 'rear derailleur'. Another proprietary gizmo that frame makers may or may not buy into. Plus making a frame unique to some part...shades of trek and specialized.

How about doing away with the 'fragile', exposed rear der all together? I know it's been tried but it seems time..

[Chris]

What’s old is new again

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Chris

What’s old is new again

On my first derailleur bike (many decades ago) the derailleur was mounted to the dropout by the axle.

[merckx]

Will the derailleur fall to the floor when the rear wheel is removed?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by merckx

Will the derailleur fall to the floor when the rear wheel is removed?

No, the derailleur bolts into the dropout. The axle hole in the dropout is oversized to fit the derailleur mounting bolt, and then the wheel thru-axle screws into the derailleur mounting bolt. This means that the frame must have a special dropout designed to work with this new derailleur.

[Alistair]

Yay! More unnecessarily proprietary stuff nobody wants nor needs.

It's bad enough that chains are now brand-specific (AXS flattop vs not). But, now I'm fixed on a drivetrain brand when I buy a frame?

[MikeD]

Wonder if you'll need a whole new frame if you fall on the derailleur side rather than just replace a sacrificial bolt on derailleur hanger?

[thermalattorney]

Originally Posted by Alistair

But, now I'm fixed on a drivetrain brand when I buy a frame?

Shimano is a spiteful company, so it could shape up that way, but it's not clear from the patent.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by thermalattorney

Shimano is a spiteful company, so it could shape up that way, but it's not clear from the patent.

Isn’t sram doing the same thing?

[benb]

You want to talk about proprietary parts I accidentally bought a Specialized stem last week.

Got it home and did a ***. Neither the LBS employee or I had realized Specialized came up with a proprietary stem -> steerer interface for their Future Shocks. He came out with 2-3 stems and I grabbed the big S one because it was the right rise/length.

It was so far outside of what I thought they would do I never even looked closely at it.

Why the LBS had a stock of those stems is beyond me too considering they will probably sell single digit #s of Future shock bikes a year. I bet Specialized mandates they have to have them in stock.

[merckx]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

No, the derailleur bolts into the dropout. The axle hole in the dropout is oversized to fit the derailleur mounting bolt, and then the wheel thru-axle screws into the derailleur mounting bolt. This means that the frame must have a special dropout designed to work with this new derailleur.

Brilliant. Thank you.

[benb]

I think we're only talking about MTBs here but if they push that to road is it going to make wheel changes even slower than a normal disc brake wheel change would be? I can't really tell if once that derailleur is mounted it just sits there and the thru axle goes right through it as if it's not there at all. I can see threads inside it.

I haven't bought a disc road bike.. my MTB with a through axle is definitely slower than a QR, are thru axles taking over the road bikes too?

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by thermalattorney

Shimano is a spiteful company, so it could shape up that way, but it's not clear from the patent.

Would somewhat agree, but in the patent drawing from the article it clearly shows an MTB. The article even mentions it. The adoption of the UDH from MTB makers has been crazy quick, and Shimano ceded the market share battle a long time ago. So wouldn't be surprised if the patent drawing was for use with the UDH, or maybe even some version of the hanger/direct mount that can also fit in the dimension standards of the UDH

Originally Posted by MikeD

Wonder if you'll need a whole new frame if you fall on the derailleur side rather than just replace a sacrificial bolt on derailleur hanger?

That's definitely a concern many had from comments in the previous post from the SRAM AXS Transmission release. However I posted some info showing how tough the connection is, and honestly it looks like anything that would hurt the frame in a UDH direct mount system would also damage the frame with a regular hanger.
https://youtu.be/i3QzPxdN1e4?t=1008

If anything it might save some frame damage from a "stick in the spokes/chain/RD" situation, as the connection of the RD to the frame looks strong enough to induce a rear wheel skid instead of the RD snapping off and the stuck stick spinning around to break the seatstay.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Isn’t sram doing the same thing?

Kind of. The UDH is "proprietary" in the way centerlock rotors are proprietary. With a rear dropout designed for UDH, you can use any normal RD with the UDH hanger. However, if you want to use a "direct mount" RD you need the right dropout. Kind of like how you can use 6 bolt rotors on centerlock with an adapter, but not the other way around.

[benb]

Rear wheel skid would be fine, the question is would it break spokes first.

It'd be dumb if we see this take a favorite out of contention at a big race, but then again if it's strong enough to break spokes it would have broken the hanger on a traditional system.