OT: NYTimes article on watches

[buddybikes]

Nothing prettier than this for your home

IMG_0338.jpg

[NYCfixie]

Originally Posted by Ozz

I am intrigued by the guys who "mod" the Seiko divers....these seem very unique and personalized.....and not too expensive!

https://www.artificehoroworks.com/

they can get expensive real fast even if you do the work yourself.

A $200 Seiko SKX can easily reach $600 if you upgrade the bezel insert, bezel, crystal, hands, and movement. Ask me how I know...

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

So much has changed - both good and bad - due to the internet but one thing that seems to stick is the market price of easily attainable watches.

You need to give more context when stating your costs have been lower than what has been stated earlier. Did you buy new or used? Authorized dealer or gray market? Are you a current customer or a new one of the place where you bought it? Do you have Rolex service your watch? An authorized dealer? A non-authorized dealer?

As examples:
- When I purchased my Explorer II more than 20 years ago, I was given a 2 year no interest payment plan (which was only offered to the best customers at the time) from the NYC authorized dealer because my family was a good customer of the company.
- When I purchased my steel/gold Rolex datejust from a different authorized dealer, I received a significant discount because my wife and I were already very good customers of the NJ location.
- Years later (which was only a few months ago), I purchased a Submariner Date from the Boston location of the same authorized dealer as in NJ so while I did not receive a discount, I only had to wait 6 weeks whereas others have been waiting years for a Submariner.
- I only have my watches serviced at Rolex NYC which is often the same cost as an authorized dealer and sometimes even less expensive. In addition, their turn around time is 4 weeks when most dealers can be several months.

Again, it is often about the context.

Thought I perhaps had inferred enough context with this comment:

"one should first be a member of your local NAWCC chapter. Just like a bike community, this is where you will find connections both for service and opportunities to buy."

As such, I am purchasing used, from a collector and have service done by local people I trust. The head of my local chapter for many years was one of the world's most prominent collectors and sellers of Rolexes etc. The NAWCC has afforded me access to resources that are IMHO better than a dealer experience in every way.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

Any clock collectors here? I find old clocks totally facinating. Have an early 1700's tall case setting the pulse for the house next to me. 300 years old and keeps perfect time.

Values of clocks, which can be a significant importance to house decor has dropped like a rock, with exception of course of original big name pieces.

I have a couple old clocks from turn of the century....I don't recall the makes offhand...

I think one is a Seth Thomas. I bought it from a guy I used to work with. He had a hobby of repairing old clocks and cars. He even taught a class on clock repair at North Seattle Community College. Interesting guy....

The other one belonged to my Mom's great aunt (or something like that).

Old clocks are cool.....

[choke]

Originally Posted by Ozz

I am intrigued by the guys who "mod" the Seiko divers....these seem very unique and personalized.....and not too expensive!

https://www.artificehoroworks.com/

Those seem a bit on the steep side to me.

I have a modded Seiko diver which was done by one of the pioneers in that field....Bill Yao. It's the one with the green seconds hand.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

they can get expensive real fast even if you do the work yourself.

A $200 Seiko SKX can easily reach $600 if you upgrade the bezel insert, bezel, crystal, hands, and movement. Ask me how I know...

For sure!

But I figure any well made mechanical watch, that is customized and under $1000 "inexpensive".

[RFC]

I know. My point is that there is not $7,850 of difference between them. No offense, Rolex are nice watches, but second to none? Branding and marketing are second to none.

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

Comparing an $8000 Rolex and a $150 other/whatever is comparing Apples and Oranges but you already know that. Rolex build and finishing is second to none if you consider that so many of them truly last forever they are worth it to many people. My 1994 Explorer II has been beet to $hit over the years and has always worked flawlessly. Just look at OldP's GMT Master which is probably from the 1960s, probably works great, and looks amazing. I just do not believe $150 watches will last the test of time.

With that said, I would agree that micros are creating some really cool stuff. I got in early on this one:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...hout-the-retai

[NYCfixie]

You did not imply anything (sorry, married to an English teacher) so there was nothing I could infer.

Purchasing used and having an item serviced by a non-authorized service person is a choice and is often less expensive but can also be more expensive (if the non-authorized person breaks something or uses non standard parts or does not even replace parts that need replacing).

Also, local markets have different prices for service. While you might pay $500 for a Rolex service in MN, that same service might cost $600 in NYC. And, until someone defines the word "service" what you get an an authorized service center and at a non-authorized service center might be very different; not necessarily bad, just different so it would be difficult to compare costs without first defining what service actually means.

Originally Posted by kingpin75s

Thought I perhaps had inferred enough context with this comment:

"one should first be a member of your local NAWCC chapter. Just like a bike community, this is where you will find connections both for service and opportunities to buy."

As such, I am purchasing used, from a collector and have service done by local people I trust. The head of my local chapter for many years was one of the world's most prominent collectors and sellers of Rolexes etc. The NAWCC has afforded me access to resources that are IMHO better than a dealer experience in every way.

[RFC]

Originally Posted by Ozz

I am intrigued by the guys who "mod" the Seiko divers....these seem very unique and personalized.....and not too expensive!

https://www.artificehoroworks.com/

Yes, they are interesting. Check out the many mods on ebay.

SKX modding would be fun. I don't need another hobby.

Check out this Seiko Soxa.

http://seikodiver.blogspot.com/2010/...40-orange.html

[RFC]

I'm sitting around waiting for contractors to show up. Thus my forum activity.

Here is a good one from Basel. Seiko has released a new Seiko 6105 and it only costs $4,250. I think the originals were $75.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/se...33-introducing

[NYCfixie]

Originally Posted by RFC

I know. My point is that there is not $7,850 of difference between them. No offense, Rolex are nice watches, but second to none? Branding and marketing are second to none.

I'll agree to disagree. While this difference may not be worth it to you, that is your opinion and not a fact. Just as another person might find it ludicrous to spend $150 on the watches you posted when they can get an equally good Timex for $40. What would you say to them? How would you explain that your watches are actually worth $150 and not the same as their $40 Timex?

Why is a $795-$2395 Lynskey not as good as a $4500 Seven (frame cost only)? They are both titanium, they are both welded by professionals, and you can use either one for a nice bike ride. (I have owned both which is why I used them as examples).

My point is that perceived value can be more or less than actual retail price and extrapolated to almost any product, as such, one person's opinion on perceived value should not be stated as fact.

[RFC]

I agree.

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

I'll agree to disagree. While this difference may not be worth it to you, that is your opinion and not a fact. Just as another person might find it ludicrous to spend $150 on the watches you posted when they can get an equally good Timex for $40. What would you say to them? How would you explain that your watches are actually worth $150 and not the same as their $40 Timex?

Why is a $795-$2395 Lynskey not as good as a $4500 Seven (frame cost only)? They are both titanium, they are both welded by professionals, and you can use either one for a nice bike ride. (I have owned both which is why I used them as examples).

My point is that perceived value can be more or less than actual retail price and extrapolated to almost any product, as such, one person's opinion on perceived value should not be stated as fact.

[NYCfixie]

Originally Posted by RFC

I'm sitting around waiting for contractors to show up. Thus my forum activity.

Here is a good one from Basel. Seiko has released a new Seiko 6105 and it only costs $4,250. I think the originals were $75.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/se...33-introducing

I am home taking care of my wife after foot surgery, hence my recent forum activity....

Again, you are comparing Apples to Oranges. Materials and build quality alone have changed drastically in 50 years. With that said, there has been much discussion on the internet about "Grand Seiko" wanting to compete with the Swiss brands in the USA market more than before and as a result the regular "Seiko" watch prices have been increasing without any real change to the models.

One way to get there is to create limited editions like the one you mentioned and charge a premium price. And even the Hodinkee article you link suggest that maybe Seiko and Grand Seiko are stretching prices too far and too fast.

A new era for Grand Seiko opens with the establishment of Grand Seiko Corporation of America

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by RFC

I'm sitting around waiting for contractors to show up. Thus my forum activity.

Here is a good one from Basel. Seiko has released a new Seiko 6105 and it only costs $4,250. I think the originals were $75.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/se...33-introducing

I prefer the SLA 017 myself for their reissues. I wonder if they're also going to go down the route they did with the 6159 reinterpretation (the SPB077/079/083). I picked up one a couple months back and love it so far.

[RFC]

Yep, that's exactly what Seiko is doing.

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

I am home taking care of my wife after foot surgery, hence my recent forum activity....

Again, you are comparing Apples to Oranges. Materials and build quality alone have changed drastically in 50 years. With that said, there has been much discussion on the internet about "Grand Seiko" wanting to compete with the Swiss brands in the USA market more than before and as a result the regular "Seiko" watch prices have been increasing without any real change to the models.

One way to get there is to create limited editions like the one you mentioned and charge a premium price. And even the Hodinkee article you link suggest that maybe Seiko and Grand Seiko are stretching prices too far and too fast.

A new era for Grand Seiko opens with the establishment of Grand Seiko Corporation of America