Compass tires: from skeptic to believer

[Dougb]

Apologies if you saw this post on I-Bob too.

Over the last year I’ve read all the rave reviews on Compass tires, sometimes seeming to be an almost cultish devotion. During that time I’ve ridden Pasela Panaracers, Rivendells, Schwalbe and Gran Bois tires of all sizes from 700x25 to 650bx42 and 26”. So I have limited experience to compare them to.

I was about to take advantage of a sale on some Vittoria Corsa G+ tires when a pair of basically new Compass Chinook Pass 28c tires with extralight casing popped up on Craigslist for $80. So I jumped on them.

I found them extremely easy to mount with levers. I pumped them up and was off.

With four rides in now of varying lengths on all sorts of pavement I can confirm what I knew within one minute on these tires: they are the most plush and comfortable tires I’ve ever been on. The effect was more profound than any saddle or cockpit change I’ve ever made and revolutioned a bike I already love to ride. I felt dialed in.

Amazingly, they have as much comfort and shock absorption as my old 650bx42 Gran Bois Hetres. I am averaging 2mph faster than I was on the same routes with the same cadences using 700x28 Pasela Protites.

I’ve heard nothing but good things about the Vittorias from many people I trust who said Compass tires really excel when you get to the larger sizes. But I sure am glad I jumped on this deal. Here are a few pics of the Wabi Special they now adorn.

Doug Bloch
Alameda CA USA

[rain dogs]

Thanks for posting your feedback. Would love to hear a follow up response after some longer term use.

What do you feel is responsible for the 2mph increase in speed? I don't know what the base speed was, but assuming it was in the neighborhood of 16mph .... up to 18mph, that's approximately the difference between 120W and 161W all things equal.

[El Chaba]

Aren't the Compass tires the same as Grand Bois?

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

Thanks for posting your feedback. Would love to hear a follow up response after some longer term use.

What do you feel is responsible for the 2mph increase in speed? I don't know what the base speed was, but assuming it was in the neighborhood of 16mph .... up to 18mph, that's approximately the difference between 120W and 161W all things equal.

hehe, yeah, there is no way any tire is going to increase your speed by 2mph. That said compass tires are excellent.


Also no, GB and compass are not the same tires.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

hehe, yeah, there is no way any tire is going to increase your speed by 2mph. That said compass tires are excellent.

If you actually looked into it, you'd find that's not true at all - going from a heavy, deep treaded tire to lightweight thin treaded tire can result in speed difference of greater than 2 mph (all else being equal). But of course, nobody expects that a fat, knobby MTB tire will roll as well as a high pressure time trial road tire. So what kind of speed differences can you expect between more similar tires?

To get an idea, you can do a quick comparison with publicly available data. The Bicycle Rolling Resistance web site publishes rolling resistance test values for a variety of tires. In the list of road bike tires, the 700x25c tire with the lowest measured rolling resistance is the Continental Grand Prix TT (Crr = 0.00354 @80psi), and the 700x25c with the highest measured rolling resistance is the Schwalbe Lugano (Crr = 0.00731 @80psi). The Analytic Cycling web site has a calculator to find Speed given Power. Using the sample rider values, and substituting in different tire rolling resistances, the expected speed values can be calculated. Using a slope gradient of 0%, and power values of 100 W and 150 W, plus the Crrs of the two different tires, I found these speeds:

Schwalbe Lugano: 7.34 m/s (16.4 mph) @ 100 W, 8.76 m/s (19.6 mph) @150 W

Continental Grand Prix TT: 8.02 m/2 (17.9 mph) @ 100 W, 9.36 m/s (20.9 mph) @ 150 W

So, switching between these two tires could give a 1.3 - 1.5 mph speed difference.

This shows the speed differences possible by switching tires can actually be much larger than between switching wheels (at these speeds & powers, the speed gains by switching from "traditional" wheels to the very best aero wheels will be less than 0.5 mph).

Anecdotally, when I switch between two bikes, one with Continental GP2000s tires and the other with Continetal GP 4 Season tires, I find a difference in average riding speed of close to 1 mph. While there are more differences between the bikes than just the tires, when I looked at the rolling resistance differences between the tires I found that the tires could easily explain the majority of the speed differences I experienced.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

If you actually looked into it, you'd find that's not true at all - going from a heavy, deep treaded tire to lightweight thin treaded tire can result in speed difference of greater than 2 mph (all else being equal). But of course, nobody expects that a fat, knobby MTB tire will roll as well as a high pressure time trial road tire. So what kind of speed differences can you expect between more similar tires?

To get an idea, you can do a quick comparison with publicly available data. The Bicycle Rolling Resistance web site publishes rolling resistance test values for a variety of tires. In the list of road bike tires, the 700x25c tire with the lowest measured rolling resistance is the Continental Grand Prix TT (Crr = 0.00354 @80psi), and the 700x25c with the highest measured rolling resistance is the Schwalbe Lugano (Crr = 0.00731 @80psi). The Analytic Cycling web site has a calculator to find Speed given Power. Using the sample rider values, and substituting in different tire rolling resistances, the expected speed values can be calculated. Using a slope gradient of 0%, and power values of 100 W and 150 W, plus the Crrs of the two different tires, I found these speeds:

Schwalbe Lugano: 7.34 m/s (16.4 mph) @ 100 W, 8.76 m/s (19.6 mph) @150 W

Continental Grand Prix TT: 8.02 m/2 (17.9 mph) @ 100 W, 9.36 m/s (20.9 mph) @ 150 W

So, switching between these two tires could give a 1.3 - 1.5 mph speed difference.

This shows the speed differences possible by switching tires can actually be much larger than between switching wheels (at these speeds & powers, the speed gains by switching from "traditional" wheels to the very best aero wheels will be less than 0.5 mph).

Anecdotally, when I switch between two bikes, one with Continental GP2000s tires and the other with Continetal GP 4 Season tires, I find a difference in average riding speed of close to 1 mph. While there are more differences between the bikes than just the tires, when I looked at the rolling resistance differences between the tires I found that the tires could easily explain the majority of the speed differences I experienced.

fair point, I should have said compared to another road tire. That said, you are right, I jumped to quick to a conclusion living in my world of only nice tires and I do feel a difference from tire to tire but it is not a lot...

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

hehe, yeah, there is no way any tire is going to increase your speed by 2mph. That said compass tires are excellent.


Also no, GB and compass are not the same tires.

^^yup. From my understanding Grand Bois kind of piggy backed compass to the point where people were starting to think they were the same company and when compass started offering different tires/components they stopped distributing GB in order to differentiate themselves.

I converted from skeptic to believer after riding the Compass Barlows.

My question is compass chinook (700x28) vs Vittoria Cora’s G+. Any opinions on this? I wanted to squeeze some 28-30s on the road bike and am waiting until my veloflex wear out to make the choice.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

If you actually looked into it, you'd find that's not true at all - going from a heavy, deep treaded tire to lightweight thin treaded tire can result in speed difference of greater than 2 mph (all else being equal). But of course, nobody expects that a fat, knobby MTB tire will roll as well as a high pressure time trial road tire. So what kind of speed differences can you expect between more similar tires?

To get an idea, you can do a quick comparison with publicly available data. The Bicycle Rolling Resistance web site publishes rolling resistance test values for a variety of tires. In the list of road bike tires, the 700x25c tire with the lowest measured rolling resistance is the Continental Grand Prix TT (Crr = 0.00354 @80psi), and the 700x25c with the highest measured rolling resistance is the Schwalbe Lugano (Crr = 0.00731 @80psi). The Analytic Cycling web site has a calculator to find Speed given Power. Using the sample rider values, and substituting in different tire rolling resistances, the expected speed values can be calculated. Using a slope gradient of 0%, and power values of 100 W and 150 W, plus the Crrs of the two different tires, I found these speeds:

Schwalbe Lugano: 7.34 m/s (16.4 mph) @ 100 W, 8.76 m/s (19.6 mph) @150 W

Continental Grand Prix TT: 8.02 m/2 (17.9 mph) @ 100 W, 9.36 m/s (20.9 mph) @ 150 W

So, switching between these two tires could give a 1.3 - 1.5 mph speed difference.

This shows the speed differences possible by switching tires can actually be much larger than between switching wheels (at these speeds & powers, the speed gains by switching from "traditional" wheels to the very best aero wheels will be less than 0.5 mph).

Anecdotally, when I switch between two bikes, one with Continental GP2000s tires and the other with Continetal GP 4 Season tires, I find a difference in average riding speed of close to 1 mph. While there are more differences between the bikes than just the tires, when I looked at the rolling resistance differences between the tires I found that the tires could easily explain the majority of the speed differences I experienced.

Originally Posted by jtakeda

^^yup. From my understanding Grand Bois kind of piggy backed compass to the point where people were starting to think they were the same company and when compass started offering different tires/components they stopped distributing GB in order to differentiate themselves.

I converted from skeptic to believer after riding the Compass Barlows.

My question is compass chinook (700x28) vs Vittoria Cora’s G+. Any opinions on this? I wanted to squeeze some 28-30s on the road bike and am waiting until my veloflex wear out to make the choice.

I love the corsas but have not been on chinook, I do prefer the vittorias to whatever GBs 28mm version is but not the same tire so not a fair comparison

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

^^yup. From my understanding Grand Bois kind of piggy backed compass to the point where people were starting to think they were the same company and when compass started offering different tires/components they stopped distributing GB in order to differentiate themselves.

I converted from skeptic to believer after riding the Compass Barlows.

My question is compass chinook (700x28) vs Vittoria Cora’s G+. Any opinions on this? I wanted to squeeze some 28-30s on the road bike and am waiting until my veloflex wear out to make the choice.

They are both made by Panaracer in the same facility, just to different specs.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by Dougb

Pasela Protites.

That might be a part of it. I haven't personally used any tires with Panaracer's protection layers, but they don't seem to do half measures. Most manufacturers have varying degrees of protection layers, with the ones in their fast racing tires being basically decorative. But Panaracer seems to either do nothing, or do a beefy layer that has a tangible impact on performance.

In one particularly startling example, last summer I went on a gravel ride, along with someone who I regularly ride road with. I was on my gravel bike with Rat Trap Pass ELs, and he'd equipped his cyclocross bike with 35mm Panaracer T-Servs. This guy was normally about my equal on the road, but that day, he couldn't even keep up in my draft when I was cruising along paved portions. Although, the rolling resistance may have been exacerbated by the high tire drop that he was running to keep the tires squishy enough for the gravel; obviously my 53s did not need to be as underinflated.

The early Panaracer-made Rivendell tires that used large amounts of protection layers also seemed to perform very poorly in coast-down tests...

I have used Paselas, but only the non-PT variant. I've got an old road bike with 27" wheels, and they're some of the best tires still available in that size. They ride reasonably given their price, and are nowhere near 2mph slower than my good racing tires.

Originally Posted by El Chaba

Aren't the Compass tires the same as Grand Bois?

No. Compass used to sell Grand Bois tires, and both are manufactured by Panaracer, but they're not the same designs.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

They are both made by Panaracer in the same facility, just to different specs.

same with gravel king... the compass are much more supple than the GKs for example, complete different rides. Both good but compass is better.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

same with gravel king...

GravelKings are Panaracer-branded, so it hardly needs to be mentioned that they're made by Panaracer.

Panaracer actually makes tires for loads of small brands. In addition to Grand Bois and Compass, there's Soma, Simworks, Rivendell, Fairweather, and SwiftTire. And I've probably missed others.
I'd guess that Panaracer doesn't charge as much as the other manufacturers to set up production of a new tire design, which would make them more attractive for people selling in low volumes. In some cases it's fairly obvious where they're ameliorating the cost: some Panaracer-made tires under small brands have used Panaracer's existing "Pasela" tread molds, such as the Fairweather tires or the early Compass 26ers (like the still-available McClure Pass).

[MikeD]

I've got the Snowqualmie Pass standard tires and run them tubeless. The sidewalls leak like crazy and I can see the Orange Seal bleeding through them on the tan sidewalls. Next time I think I'll buy the Gravelkings. No bleed through on them on my son's bike. Trying to save weight by thinning out the tire liner isn't good, in my book.

[cachagua]

The sidewalls leak like crazy and I can see the Orange Seal bleeding through them...

Something is very wrong here. Sealant is supposed to be able to-- no, it's FOR THE PURPOSE of sealing small leaks. If you run over something and make a small leak, or if the tire manufacturer puts a million small leaks in the sidewall, a small leak is a small leak. If a tubeless "system" is working, this should categorically never happen.

Stories like that make me wanna ride tubes.

However I'll pile on with everyone else and tell my Compass story: I put extra-light Bon Jons on my gravel-cross-thing when I first built it up, and MAN what a bike! Tight and fast, flickable but totally steady, in every way a great-handling bike. Grinned like a fool every time I got on it. Then last month, anticipating winter conditions, I switched to a very similar tire, same size, even comes from the same factory -- you could almost call it an econo-Jon. After a few rides I was like "What happened to my bike?" It wallows like a small motorboat, it's vague in turns and hunts when going straight, bumps just feel like mush. The ride is so pedestrian that if I'd put these tires on for the first build, I might very well not have kept the bike.

I'm not new to this, I've seen the difference tires can make... but this surprised me. I'm ordering another two or three Bon Jons. Call me a believer.

[doomridesout]

I've been riding a set of tubed Stampede Passes on my rando bike and I have to say they ride really really well.