Ti Frame too stiff?

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by dddd

I can't answer for John H., but air pressure is just one variable in terms of vertical compliance of the tire.

A wider tire's larger cross-sectional radius may bridge surface defects such that they don't transmit as much shock, and it's permissible lower pressure (without risk of pinch-flat) equates to a wider contact patch. Good so far, but a 2x wider tire has 2x the tension in the casing at the same pressure, and casing tension resists local deflection as imposed by bits of gravel or a rough asphalt surface.

And where surface defects are more undulating than square-edged, a wider tire resists vertical deflection more than a narrower tire. Further, a wider rim creates a more-vertical tire sidewall that won't yield vertically as far with any given change in loading.

So expecting larger tires to be more absorbent toward many types of surface imperfections requires quite-large reductions in air pressure.

How much larger than 30 psi?

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Kontact

How much larger than 30 psi?

I frequently ride an old rigid mtb back and forth across town with rough asphalt along the sides of the road, and since I'm 150# light 30psi is exactly what I use in the 2" hybrid-treaded tires. I would say that 30psi is quite low enough for this tire size, it's just a third of my normal road tire pressure, though at 45mm (actual) width these are just less than twice the width of my 25-25mm road tires.

It's plenty absorbant on rough patches, but it would take suspension to absorb undulations at speed and then some kind of damping would be needed.

I've noticed that the casings of the cheapest plus-bike tires provide such useful damping at very low pressures, but of course eat up LOTS of watts in rolling resistance, and literally add pounds to a bike.

[chiasticon]

how much did you ride the bike before taking time off? did you think it was too stiff/uncomfortable then, when you were riding more? I'm still wondering if a lot of this is you adapting to riding more. I feel similar aches when switching from cx and winter bikes with a more upright position and forgiving ride, to my summer bike with a stiffer frame, smaller tires and a more racey position. it goes away after a couple weeks though.

the other thing is to remember that you asked for a race ready bike, right? that doesn't mean "focus on making it comfortable" it means "make it stiff and responsive." certainly not a bad thing, but maybe it's just not a bike you want to ride in every situation. if indeed your outlook towards riding has changed during your time off, and you're no longer focusing on racing or race-type rides and instead prefer more casual riding, then it's possible the frame just doesn't suit your riding style any more.

also as a lover/owner of IF's I'll say that bike looks friggin' sweet. nice job!

[93KgBike]

Originally Posted by Kontact

Perhaps he meant a thinner seat post with a shim.

But that isn't going to help your hands.

Thanks Kontact, that's exactly what I meant. It could help the hands, as it allows you to unweight them while pedaling. However, look at those beefy stays... Track bike?

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by chiasticon

how much did you ride the bike before taking time off? did you think it was too stiff/uncomfortable then, when you were riding more? I'm still wondering if a lot of this is you adapting to riding more. I feel similar aches when switching from cx and winter bikes with a more upright position and forgiving ride, to my summer bike with a stiffer frame, smaller tires and a more racey position. it goes away after a couple weeks though.

the other thing is to remember that you asked for a race ready bike, right? that doesn't mean "focus on making it comfortable" it means "make it stiff and responsive." certainly not a bad thing, but maybe it's just not a bike you want to ride in every situation. if indeed your outlook towards riding has changed during your time off, and you're no longer focusing on racing or race-type rides and instead prefer more casual riding, then it's possible the frame just doesn't suit your riding style any more.

also as a lover/owner of IF's I'll say that bike looks friggin' sweet. nice job!

Tough to suss out what's the bike and what's getting back into it after a long layoff.

It ain't an armchair, after all.

[texbike]

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

Life is to short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

Agreed! I tend to like stiffer bikes, but had a Legend Ti with a Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork a few years ago that was just brutal. The bike was a perfect fit and it was beautiful. I tried multiple wheelsets, saddles (all Ariones), a couple of seatposts, and of course lower tire pressure (90 lbs in PR3s). Nothing would fix the ride quality. At one point, I started calling it the Asspounder 6000. What was really disappointing is that the stiffness didn't translate into increased ability to accelerate over my other bikes. It felt muddy and blah. After a year, I gave up and kicked it out of the garage.

Oh well, not all bikes are perfect. As NYCfixie states above, life is too short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

Texbike

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by chiasticon

how much did you ride the bike before taking time off? did you think it was too stiff/uncomfortable then, when you were riding more? I'm still wondering if a lot of this is you adapting to riding more. I feel similar aches when switching from cx and winter bikes with a more upright position and forgiving ride, to my summer bike with a stiffer frame, smaller tires and a more racey position. it goes away after a couple weeks though.

the other thing is to remember that you asked for a race ready bike, right? that doesn't mean "focus on making it comfortable" it means "make it stiff and responsive." certainly not a bad thing, but maybe it's just not a bike you want to ride in every situation. if indeed your outlook towards riding has changed during your time off, and you're no longer focusing on racing or race-type rides and instead prefer more casual riding, then it's possible the frame just doesn't suit your riding style any more.

also as a lover/owner of IF's I'll say that bike looks friggin' sweet. nice job!

I've always thought it was super stiff. I came off a bmc on to it and was racing a lot at the time. It's stiffer than anything my friends have or anything else I've ever come across - even in small sizes. It doesn't jolt as much as carbon bikes that are as stiff, but it's probably overkill

I've gone back to the build sheets and the questionnaire from IF and I asked for something neutral re stiffness. I wanted an aggressive position, and I still like that, I wanted it to steer quickly etc. I love the angles. But I said neutral on comfort and I think that they've overdone it because they were building around the only fork on the market at the time.

The bike really was pushing the envelope when it came out. I got it made for Dura Ace di2 hydro discs five years before they were available on the market (I'm no visionary, it just took shimano way longer to finish them than I thought)!

And yes, thanks, it's a gorgeous machine. I'm very pleased with how it's aging aesthetically. Still looks good.

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[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Tough to suss out what's the bike and what's getting back into it after a long layoff.

It ain't an armchair, after all.

Yeah you're all right on this point. But it c c uzdzfdy a

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[Heisenberg]

From glancing at the photo of your frame, yes, that bike will be a stiff-as-nails jackhammer unless there's some fancy-ass custom butting going on I'm not seeing.

It's easy to build a too-stiff Ti frame.

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

Thanks Kontact, that's exactly what I meant. It could help the hands, as it allows you to unweight them while pedaling. However, look at those beefy stays... Track bike?

Yup, it certainly feels like it transmits power!

Seatpost is already shimmed. In the oversize tubes IF put a Carbon sleeve in the seat tube. So that's a 27.2 post with a 31.8 clamp and there's an internal sleeve in the seattube


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[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

From glancing at the photo of your frame, yes, that bike will be a stiff-as-nails jackhammer unless there's some fancy-ass custom butting going on I'm not seeing.

It's easy to build a too-stiff Ti frame.

Nope, it all be straight gauge as far as i know.

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[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by texbike

Agreed! I tend to like stiffer bikes, but had a Legend Ti with a Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork a few years ago that was just brutal. The bike was a perfect fit and it was beautiful. I tried multiple wheelsets, saddles (all Ariones), a couple of seatposts, and of course lower tire pressure (90 lbs in PR3s). Nothing would fix the ride quality. At one point, I started calling it the Asspounder 6000. What was really disappointing is that the stiffness didn't translate into increased ability to accelerate over my other bikes. It felt muddy and blah. After a year, I gave up and kicked it out of the garage.

Oh well, not all bikes are perfect. As NYCfixie states above, life is too short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

Texbike

It's that line that's been the most useful in this whole thread - life is too short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

You get all emotionally attached to the things (time, energy, cost that went into them - and that's my first and only custom bike), but really what matters more is the ride.

I've got 28mm tyres on the way and we'll see how they go, but I've also got a couple test rides lined up on carbon race bikes (as much as it drove me nuts because the cable routing was **** and it would fill up with water when it rained, I loved my SLC01 - you know, the one Floyd won the tour on).

I've always wanted a Cannondale (love that geometry) and there's a new local outfit here called Chapter 2 that's making some cool looking bikes (lazier geo though).

So, I'm definitely selling the C40 (anyone want a small Mapei C40 with a pristine Super Record groupset and kinlin / dt swiss / alchemy wheels?) and I might be selling the IF.

We will see.

Life's too short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

[NYCfixie]

As a young lad who grew up in NYC, I was happy, and even enjoyed, riding those terribly harsh early Cannondale frames on the mean and potholed streets of Manhattan. Big fat aluminium tubes were cool...and so was I at the time.

So many years later and being called "Sir" (and not Dude) all the time, I like comfortable Ti bikes. Making a stiff Ti bike sort of ruins the purpose of having a Ti bike. No offense to the OP since I do not think that is really what he wanted 5 years ago when he ordered it.

Usually the advantage of being at the point in your life when you only get called "Sir" is that you can sell a bike you do not like anymore and get something new. Someone out there will love that frame for all the reasons you do not like it anymore.

Life is too short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

Originally Posted by mikmcconnell

It's that line that's been the most useful in this whole thread - life is too short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

Life is to short too ride uncomfortable bikes.

[mikmcconnell]

Yeah, no offense taken. Yep, that's what I thought I was ordering.

Part of this is age and stage for me too I think. I was 31 or 32 when I thought it up and ordered it, was racing a lot, spending a lot of time with the man with the hammer, and didn't have kids.

Now I'm closer to 40, I've got two little girls, a big ass mortgage, and I spend my spare time on fixing my house.

Hell, halfway through this posting last night I was under my house digging out the dirt under the floor so I can build another storage area on the weekend.

People call me sir when I go to the supermarket.

I love how my C40 rides but I'm crap at mechanical stuff and I LOVE hydraulic disc brakes.

So, I guess what I really want is a road bike that rides comfortably, still has an aggressive position and is light (the C40 ticks all these boxes), and has disc brakes and electronic (and who can justify the mental prices of a C60 disc, seriously!).

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

As a young lad who grew up in NYC, I was happy, and even enjoyed, riding those terribly harsh early Cannondale frames on the mean and potholed streets of Manhattan. Big fat aluminium tubes were cool...and so was I at the time.

So many years later and being called "Sir" (and not Dude) all the time, I like comfortable Ti bikes. Making a stiff Ti bike sort of ruins the purpose of having a Ti bike. No offense to the OP since I do not think that is really what he wanted 5 years ago when he ordered it.

Usually the advantage of being at the point in your life when you only get called "Sir" is that you can sell a bike you do not like anymore and get something new. Someone out there will love that frame for all the reasons you do not like it anymore.

Life is too short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

[adrien]

Have you ever tried it with cotton open tubular tires?

I've found they can make a big difference -- maybe Vittoria Corsas?

Worth a shot...