Ti Frame too stiff?

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

Try lower tire pressures first and ride it some more. If it still feels too stiff, than it is no matter what anybody else tells you.

I ordered a new Seven mid-reach brake road bike about 18 months ago and something got lost in translation between the store and Seven so the seat stays were too big. I tried almost everything to make it feel less stiff: changed from Shimano C35 to C24 wheels, wider tires, lower pressure, more comfortable seat, and even more padded shorts but it was too stiff and my back was killing me.

Seven took the bike back, stripped it, welded in thinner stays (and a new seat tube so no weld marks would show, built it again, and gave it back. Others may claim chainstays should not make a difference but that is the only other thing that was changed and to me it did make a huge change and the bike was amazing after that.

Try everything you can and then make a decision.

Life is to short to ride uncomfortable bikes.

Thanks man. That's a great and thoughtful response.

[ultraman6970]

Op do you have a picture of the bike in question?

[NYCfixie]

Originally Posted by mikmcconnell

Thanks man. That's a great and thoughtful response.

And, like you I ride small frames (53.5 ETT) so things like stiffness can be amplified. Even custom butted 16mm stays will give a harsher ride on a 53.5 bike then say a 58.5 bike.

I think one of the worst things you can do for small bikes is the tapered headtube/headset. Smaller frames do not need more stiffness in the front or back. By their nature (geometry, physics, etc.) they are stiffer than a larger frame built with the same tube thicknesses. Thankfully some production bikes are using tapered headtubes in 1.25 on their smaller frames and 1.5 on their larger frames.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss offline.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by mikmcconnell

Hi,

I've got a Indy Fab Ti Crown Jewel Disc. Had it for five years but haven't been doing much riding (babies).

I'm now getting back on it and am thinking that it might be too stiff. It just kills me on longer rides - I can feel absolutely everything on the road - to the point I think I can feel a wheel pulsing that's a fraction of a millimetre out of true.

It was built with oversized tubes (down tube, head tube and BB), and I'm only a little guy (53.7cm TT - I'm 168cm and about 65kg). It's a stunning bike, but I think might not be right for my purposes.

I'm thinking I might have a great crit bike for racing on perfect tarmac (which we don't have here in NZ) but a not so great other purposes bike.

Thoughts?

Haven’t read all the responses but bigger tires and less psi in ’em.

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Op do you have a picture of the bike in question?

Here is the frameset: http://www.ifrider.com/titanium-crown-jewel-special/

[Kontact]

Of the things discussed so far:

1. Carbon bars. Yes, those might be stiffer than the alloy bars they replaced. Carbon bars aren't built for flex, they are built to resist damage. Probably not a big deal, though.

2. Fork. I doubt you'll find a soft riding disc fork, especially one with the tapered head tube.

3. Frame. I disagree with Peter's post - despite the general shape of diamond bike frames, many do ride softer than others.

4. Wheels. Sure, some ride softer, but softer riding wheels don't necessarily last as long as reasonably stiff wheels. Maybe not such a great place to put a ton of flex into.

5. Tires. This is kind of key, because the only time we really need to worry about the stiffness of forks, frames or bars is when we are using low volume tires. I won't say that the line is at 28c or 32c, but once the tire volume gets large enough it simply doesn't matter what the rest of the bike is doing. I guarantee that a Homer Hilson would also beat most of us up with 23c tires. 23 and 25c tires are for rim brake racing bikes with forks and stays designed to absorb vibration and bumps, not handle braking stresses.


For the kind of bike the OP has, I don't see any reason not to just put some larger volume tires on it and solve all the issues in one go. It isn't a racing bike and should be equipped in a way that matches its design.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by mikmcconnell

Here is the frameset: http://www.ifrider.com/titanium-crown-jewel-special/

Yup, that's "oversize" for Ti, especially in a small size. Once tubes get large enough it doesn't matter what the material is.

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by NYCfixie

And, like you I ride small frames (53.5 ETT) so things like stiffness can be amplified. Even custom butted 16mm stays will give a harsher ride on a 53.5 bike then say a 58.5 bike.

I think one of the worst things you can do for small bikes is the tapered headtube/headset. Smaller frames do not need more stiffness in the front or back. By their nature (geometry, physics, etc.) they are stiffer than a larger frame built with the same tube thicknesses. Thankfully some production bikes are using tapered headtubes in 1.25 on their smaller frames and 1.5 on their larger frames.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss offline.

Yeah, will message.

I can't remember the taper on the fork. I think it's 1.25 to 1.125 - I'm pretty sure it's not 1.5 (I don't think they did them back in 2012 when it was built)

I've just gone back and looked at the build sheet and it's specified "44mm head tube, oversized tubing all around."

Would be an epic crit bike.

I'll see what I can do to get it to settle down and I've just tee'd up a test ride on a 'Dale from the LBS just in case.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by mikmcconnell

These tyres: 25mm GP 4000s, 25mm

These pressures: 65 front 70 rear

Holy crap, I got nothing. 25c tires at 70psi or lower would feel like wading in jello to me.

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by Kontact

Yup, that's "oversize" for Ti, especially in a small size. Once tubes get large enough it doesn't matter what the material is.

Yeah, this is all rather obvious in retrospect.

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Holy crap, I got nothing. 25c tires at 70psi or lower would feel like wading in jello to me.

You need some wheelworks wheels ;-)

Those rims and those tyres at those pressures on that bike are way harder than 110 psi on Kinlins on my C40

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by Kontact

Of the things discussed so far:

1. Carbon bars. Yes, those might be stiffer than the alloy bars they replaced. Carbon bars aren't built for flex, they are built to resist damage. Probably not a big deal, though.

2. Fork. I doubt you'll find a soft riding disc fork, especially one with the tapered head tube.

3. Frame. I disagree with Peter's post - despite the general shape of diamond bike frames, many do ride softer than others.

4. Wheels. Sure, some ride softer, but softer riding wheels don't necessarily last as long as reasonably stiff wheels. Maybe not such a great place to put a ton of flex into.

5. Tires. This is kind of key, because the only time we really need to worry about the stiffness of forks, frames or bars is when we are using low volume tires. I won't say that the line is at 28c or 32c, but once the tire volume gets large enough it simply doesn't matter what the rest of the bike is doing. I guarantee that a Homer Hilson would also beat most of us up with 23c tires. 23 and 25c tires are for rim brake racing bikes with forks and stays designed to absorb vibration and bumps, not handle braking stresses.


For the kind of bike the OP has, I don't see any reason not to just put some larger volume tires on it and solve all the issues in one go. It isn't a racing bike and should be equipped in a way that matches its design.

LBS is going to call when the 28s are in and I'll throw them on and see how they go. Clearance will be my next issue.

No one was thinking of putting 28s on bikes back in 2012. It's got the ENVE 1.0 Road Disc Fork which I'm told will take 28s (but only just - ENVE only say it'll take 25s apparently).

Being told that and just doing a cursory visual inspection, I'm more concerned about the chainstay clearance.

We'll see. If they don't fit on the IF they'll be good on the Ritchey.

[John H.]

I also had an IF ti that I thought was too stiff. It was a hardtail mtb.

[mikmcconnell]

Originally Posted by John H.

I also had an IF ti that I thought was too stiff. It was a hardtail mtb.

Hmmm, that's telling. When was it built?

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by John H.

I also had an IF ti that I thought was too stiff. It was a hardtail mtb.

What does a too-stiff bike with 2" tires feel like?