Mechanical advantage of drop bar brake (only) levers (not brifters)

[NHAero]

As I fool around with the vintage-lite build of my '72 Bob Jackson I currently have a Paul Racer centerpull brake caliper on the front, which replaces the less powerful long reach Tektro 559. I currently have my old Campy NR non-aero brake levers on the bike. Are there vintage levers (aero or non-aero doesn't matter to me) that would have better mechanical advantage and therefore result in more braking power?

Also, the pads are black, not the salmon Koolstop pads shown in the current Paul web store. Would braking (dry conditions, I don't ride this bike in the rain anymore!) be improved by the salmon pads?

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by NHAero

As I fool around with the vintage-lite build of my '72 Bob Jackson I currently have a Paul Racer centerpull brake caliper on the front, which replaces the less powerful long reach Tektro 559. I currently have my old Campy NR non-aero brake levers on the bike. Are there vintage levers (aero or non-aero doesn't matter to me) that would have better mechanical advantage and therefore result in more braking power?

Also, the pads are black, not the salmon Koolstop pads shown in the current Paul web store. Would braking (dry conditions, I don't ride this bike in the rain anymore!) be improved by the salmon pads?

On the salmon pads, I don't like them as much as the black. Never saw any improvement in power over the black ones. The black pads don't squeal as much and they last longer, IMO. But, I'm using them with Shimano dual pivot brakes, which have an overabundance of braking power. They could make a marginal difference with your brakes so might be worth a try. Also, How good are your cables? Less friction cables with stiffer housings would make the brakes feel more powerful.

[rccardr]

Any Shimano SLR style lever, aero or non- aero, will do a much better job than the Campy NR’s. So pretty much any of them from 1987 onward.

6403 (silver grey finish) and BL-R600 (polished finish) are the ones with available replacement hoods but there are also plenty of new 400 series ones out there for $50-ish.

If you really like the non-aero look, 1050 and 6400 levers are both SLR but easier to find in Europe than in the US.

[tellyho]

I find that the salmon pads (and slightly superior Swisstop BXP) improve modulation by increasing grip at all levels of engagement. I don't run black pads of anybody's manufacture on any brake in the stable. For a small-handed person, salmon or BXP are crucial, as I have less lever travel to work with.

I run center pulls on two bikes with nothing-special Tektro something-or-others. Never found them wanting (with salmon pads

[NHAero]

An associated question:

Does it matter which direction the pads face? They are integral to the pad holder and don't appear to be 'housed'. If I mount them the way they are shown on the Paul web site, with the pad 'arrows' and longer portion of the pad facing to the rear, they hit the inside of the fork when the caliper is opened to get the wheel in.

[Mr.Appa]

Originally Posted by NHAero

An associated question:

Does it matter which direction the pads face? They are integral to the pad holder and don't appear to be 'housed'. If I mount them the way they are shown on the Paul web site, with the pad 'arrows' and longer portion of the pad facing to the rear, they hit the inside of the fork when the caliper is opened to get the wheel in.

They are probably directional (i've never tried to reverse them, so can't say for certain). Unfortunately, the pads hitting the inside of the fork is just what they do. If you find the salmom pads don't work well, you can get some different, shorter length pads from swisstop, koolstop, etc. with the standard road brake rim shoe (what I currently use with my racers on the front to avoid the very same issue).

The hackery option to avoid the pads running into the fork would be to simply cut them shorter. I've done this once in the dog days of COVID and found it doesn't impact performance much. If you toe in the pads like recommended, then the back 1/3rd of the pads don't contact the rim to begin with.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by NHAero

An associated question:

Does it matter which direction the pads face? They are integral to the pad holder and don't appear to be 'housed'. If I mount them the way they are shown on the Paul web site, with the pad 'arrows' and longer portion of the pad facing to the rear, they hit the inside of the fork when the caliper is opened to get the wheel in.

There are two fold reasons these pads are direction: The chevron shape is pointed backward with the idea that it wlll help displace water; and because caliper arms twist under braking force, it will cause the backs of the pads to press into the rims, so you want the longer end to be in the back.

If there isn't enough clearance between the pads and fork for the pads to retract far enough, there are two potential solutions:

Kool-Stop offers "thin-line" versions of their pads, which are thinner for more clearance. The downside of these pads is that there is less pad material, so they wear out faster:



Another option is to use standard road pads, which don't extend backwards as much:

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

There are two fold reasons these pads are direction: The chevron shape is pointed backward with the idea that it wlll help displace water; and because caliper arms twist under braking force, it will cause the backs of the pads to press into the rims, so you want the longer end to be in the back.

If there isn't enough clearance between the pads and fork for the pads to retract far enough, there are two potential solutions:

Kool-Stop offers "thin-line" versions of their pads, which are thinner for more clearance. The downside of these pads is that there is less pad material, so they wear out faster:



Another option is to use standard road pads, which don't extend backwards as much:

Thanks Mark and all for lots of helpful info. The pads on there are thinline so that's maxed out.

[NHAero]

Back to the levers - are modern levers such as the TRP RRL more like brifters in terms of how they mount to the bars to create a flatter transition bars to hoods? And are the hoods wider than the old non-aero levers, Campy and Shimano as have been suggested up-thread? With arthritic thumbs I find modern brifter hoods more confortable than the old campy levers.

[Mark McM]

I don't know about the TRP RRL levers, but the Cane Creek SCR-5 levers are basically copies of the 1st generaton Campagnolo Ergo levers (without the shifting guts of course), and even include a Campagnolo-esque quick release buildt-in. If your hands like 1st generation ergo levers, these feel the same.

[tellyho]

Pretty sure those Cane Creeks were made by Tektro anyway. To answer Marc's question, I have found that modern brake levers set up like brifters - in a flat line with bar tops (or engineered by me to make a flat transition - the small-handed person's cheat to get blades closer to the curve of the bar). I, too, prefer the wider tops of these brake levers.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by tellyho

Pretty sure those Cane Creeks were made by Tektro anyway. To answer Marc's question, I have found that modern brake levers set up like brifters - in a flat line with bar tops (or engineered by me to make a flat transition - the small-handed person's cheat to get blades closer to the curve of the bar). I, too, prefer the wider tops of these brake levers.

I think I'm going to start looking for a set of Tektro R100 brake levers, which is what I put on my wife's Casseroll. Too bad they are not made anymore, but I find the shape comfortable. Tektro now makes a R340 which may be similar.

[rustychisel]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I don't know about the TRP RRL levers, but the Cane Creek SCR-5 levers are basically copies of the 1st generaton Campagnolo Ergo levers (without the shifting guts of course), and even include a Campagnolo-esque quick release buildt-in. If your hands like 1st generation ergo levers, these feel the same.

I'm using Cane Creek SCR5s on my fixed gear bike. They're made by Tektro as noted, but CC supply their own hoods which are far superior. I wore out Tektro rubber hoods in under 2 years and cannot source replacements, and they're crap anyway. Trust me, CC are superior. Have also mounted Shimano levers and found them perfectly average in terms of function, but note, they're lighter, levers are thinner and flex appreciably, and the body is thinner and smaller. If you like something to wrap your hands around when climbing out of the saddle and with a good transition to the bar then CC with the wide 'Campagnolo styled body' is for you.

On balance then, Cane Creek, because Tektro rubbers are heinous, they malform, wear out and tear.

[rccardr]

Two items:
1) Had the same issue with Kool Stop pads on Paul Minimotos not clearing the fork when opened to remove the wheel. Messaged back and forth with the owner of Kool Stop and he said it was OK to cut off 20mm or so, and then round off the cut. I did so and found no reduction in braking action or change in feel.
2) Tektro R100’s are the best Ergo type lever IMHO. Have never had a problem with the hoods wearing out and have used them on at least eight or ten bikes over the last 15 years. Later versions have an odd shaped lever that doesn’t fit my hands. I agree that the Cane Creek levers are an excellent substitute but am not so fond of the raised logo stuff on their hoods…even though I appreciate that replacement hoods are out there.

As I have aged, I find that the narrower Shimano bodies and hoods are more comfortable and so have swapped over to BL-R600’s for the most part. But that’s just me.

With regard to TRP levers,ugh, don’t get me started. Personally have never appreciated the design aesthetic.

[stefthehat]

I’ve set my Paul’s up with both Shimano aero SLRs [work fine ] and those TRP aero levers with the wacky drilled levers [worked fine but felt fantastic in the hand ,could only compare to feel of older campag 10 speed ergos ],funny enough only picked up some 2nd hand gum rubber hooded cane creeks on Tuesday and they feel [width etc]same as campag ergos also for what it’s worth on any retromod builds using 26.0 bulge bars I found the older soma highway 1’s were good at replicating the ramp/hood transition I had on modern bikes with compact [fsa] and ergos