Full custom shoe experiences

[camelbackkid]

I've had my Lamson's for two months now and could not be happier with them. Don is great to deal with, supremely knowledgeable, and makes fantastic shoes.

[bshell]

Originally Posted by djg21

The crush box isn’t difficult. You need to study the directions in advance and watch the YouTube video (link is on Lamson website). Don also can participate by Skype and make sure everything is done correctly. Ask him about this. It is really helpful.

I don’t know about “delicate.” I have sets of Don’s road and gravel/mtb shoes in my closet that have to be 20 years old.

Back then I worked in a shop that was contemplating being a D2 dealer -hence I got multiple pair to try out. Discounted, not free. I think (hope) anyone considering a custom shoe would in fact read the instructions and watch the videos before throwing in a bunch of cash.

And I didn't say the crush box was difficult. I said there was risk in transmitting information (tracing/taking measurements/crushing foam)
to someone that then interprets that and makes a shoe by hand.

I'm not saying they are tissue paper but if you don't have experience with the fancy Specialized line of shoes --the Lamson/Riivo are more delicate, w/o question.

And it's why the Spec's aren't as comfortable. The uppers are more robust, as are the soles. I broke the carbon soles on D2 Kongs three times (just a cross country rider with bad insurance and a desire to self preserve).

Zero times on the Spec so far. Time will tell.

Ps. Don was great and makes a real nice shoe.

[benb]

I would be skeptical of any insole or orthotic being able to help if the heel is too big.

From experience with lots of them the insoles/orthotics always raise your heel a little bit.

If you are popping out of the heel without an insole/orthotic it is very easy to end up popping out even more. The arch support ends up making the shoe fit tighter under the laces, and if it's not well done it will take up space in the toe box, but as for the heel it is a neutral effect (well done) to negative in terms of heel popping out.

I have major heel issues with popping out with my current mountain shoes + my orthotics. However it is a total non-issue when pedaling. It only makes itself apparent if I have to get off the bike and push/run up a steep incline. Last fall I had my foot come completely out of the shoe doing that! If I use them with just the stock insoles or with superfeet low profile type stuff the popout issues are reduced.

Personally my issue is almost always needing to loosen up my shoes as a ride goes on till they feel sloppy.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by bshell

Back then I worked in a shop that was contemplating being a D2 dealer -hence I got multiple pair to try out. Discounted, not free. I think (hope) anyone considering a custom shoe would in fact read the instructions and watch the videos before throwing in a bunch of cash.

And I didn't say the crush box was difficult. I said there was risk in transmitting information (tracing/taking measurements/crushing foam)
to someone that then interprets that and makes a shoe by hand.

I'm not saying they are tissue paper but if you don't have experience with the fancy Specialized line of shoes --the Lamson/Riivo are more delicate, w/o question.

And it's why the Spec's aren't as comfortable. The uppers are more robust, as are the soles. I broke the carbon soles on D2 Kongs three times (just a cross country rider with bad insurance and a desire to self preserve).

Zero times on the Spec so far. Time will tell.

Ps. Don was great and makes a real nice shoe.

I’m surprised you broke his soles, especially on a MTB shoe. He uses pretty stiff carbon fiber, but not too stiff. With the Vibram outsoles he uses, the carbon fiber soles are pretty-well protected too.

Don’s new MTB/gravel soles allow some flex at the toes in front of the cleat to allow for better walking/running. This makes the soles even more resilient. Don also stopped using Kevlar sail cloth to reinforce his shoes and instead uses Innegra fabric. Like the sail cloth, Innegra does not stretch, yet it is lighter and allows the shoe to be far more supple. His new shoes are much improved from the shoes he designed and built at D2.

I’ve been close friends with Don for over 35 years, since we both lived in Vail, Colorado, and he owned the premier ski boot-fitting/insole fabrication shop in the Vail Valley (Boot Lab of Vail, when it was in the Mill Creek building and before he sold it to focus exclusively on bike shoes). I sat in his shop and watched him build insoles and fit shoes for many on the 7-11 cycling team and a number of other pros.

I was never more than a mediocre recreational racing cyclist. But I am big, hard on equipment, and can break almost anything I touch. I often get Don’s prototypes with instructions to do my best to destroy them. I’ve had very little success thus far. If you broke 3 pair, you must be doing something right, or maybe wrong.

[happycampyer]

Originally Posted by bewheels

I had excellent results with Riivo and highly recommend him (one-man operation).

Best shoes I have ever owned. And I have owned many over the last 40 years.

I had molds for shoes taken at a NAHBS years ago, and the shoes came out great. I’m not sure I would be comfortable dealing with the molds myself, or having someone else do it unless they were carefully trained. Brad is in Texas, so you might be able to have the molds taken in person.

[kgreene10]

Originally Posted by happycampyer

I had molds for shoes taken at a NAHBS years ago, and the shoes came out great. I’m not sure I would be comfortable dealing with the molds myself, or having someone else do it unless they were carefully trained. Brad is in Texas, so you might be able to have the molds taken in person.

Yes, Brad is just a couple of hours away. If I had a spare $1600, I would certainly try this route.

But what I’m getting from the experiences of others shared here is high variance — for some people, custom goes really well. For others, not so well. As a teacher, I have to be very careful with my choices. I don’t mind saving up for really high quality purchases but I need to have very high confidence in what I’m buying.

[bigbill]

Having had a personal fitting by Don Lamson and viewed the videos to explain doing the crush box and measurements at home, I would never do one myself. We live in NW AZ, about six hours from Don's place in Green Valley, but my wife is an equestrian, and we were near Tucson last year, so he was only an hour away. It's more than the crush box; Don measures the volume of your foot and makes a form. Models of my feet are on a shelf at Don's shop. I'm not sure my measurements at home would have been as thorough.

I contacted D2 before Don and was underwhelmed. From my understanding, D2 is run by a cobbler who is not a cyclist.

Don Lamson offers custom insoles as well.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by bigbill

It's more than the crush box; Don measures the volume of your foot and makes a form. Models of my feet are on a shelf at Don's shop. I'm not sure my measurements at home would have been as thorough.

Has he changed his process recently?

When I had all my D2 shoes made by him, he would use standard lasts and would "customize" them for each customer by adding pieces of molding clay to them to get the shape needed. These bits of clay would sit in a box for each customer but there was no single last sitting on a shelf that was an exact facsimile of one person's foot.

I was under the impression that this is what he is still doing.

I think I recall him doing 3D plaster molds of customer feet when he left D2 but he seemed to stop doing that pretty quickly and reverted back to the method he employed at D2.

[PaMtbRider]

Originally Posted by kgreene10

Yes, Brad is just a couple of hours away. If I had a spare $1600, I would certainly try this route.

But what I’m getting from the experiences of others shared here is high variance — for some people, custom goes really well. For others, not so well. As a teacher, I have to be very careful with my choices. I don’t mind saving up for really high quality purchases but I need to have very high confidence in what I’m buying.

This is where I am at. Spending $1600 for shoes with a chance of mixed results is something I can't bring myself to do. If I lived anywhere close to either Brad or Don I would be much more likely to take the leap of faith.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

Has he changed his process recently?

When I had all my D2 shoes made by him, he would use standard lasts and would "customize" them for each customer by adding pieces of molding clay to them to get the shape needed. These bits of clay would sit in a box for each customer but there was no single last sitting on a shelf that was an exact facsimile of one person's foot.

I was under the impression that this is what he is still doing.

I think I recall him doing 3D plaster molds of customer feet when he left D2 but he seemed to stop doing that pretty quickly and reverted back to the method he employed at D2.

Don has lasts in multiple widths for each foot length, or size, that he customizes to accommodate each riders’ needs. Keeping lasts for each individual customer isn’t necessary. The insoles are created using an Amfit system (https://amfit.com/), which is a computerized system that scans the crush boxes and creates digitized images that Don manipulates and modifies as necessary to address a riders particular needs. The Amfit system then mills and fabricates the insoles. The digitized scans are saved, along with the customer’s other fit information, and can be used by Don to build additional shoes and insoles for the customer.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by djg21

Don has lasts in multiple widths for each foot length, or size, that he customizes to accommodate each riders’ needs. Keeping lasts for each individual customer isn’t necessary. The insoles are created using an Amfit system (https://amfit.com/), which is a computerized system that scans the crush boxes and creates digitized images that Don manipulates and modifies as necessary to address a riders particular needs. The Amfit system then mills and fabricates the insoles. The digitized scans are saved, along with the customer’s other fit information, and can be used by Don to build additional shoes and insoles for the customer.

So he hasn't changed his process, then.

Having gone through the custom shoe buying process multiple times, the best way to get a good result is with a plaster mold of your feet.

I had no issues with the orthotics Don made - they were great. The challenges I had were with the 3D shaping of my feet and getting the toe box shape correct.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

So he hasn't changed his process, then.

Having gone through the custom shoe buying process multiple times, the best way to get a good result is with a plaster mold of your feet.

I had no issues with the orthotics Don made - they were great. The challenges I had were with the 3D shaping of my feet and getting the toe box shape correct.

We will have to disagree. There is no need to build and store plaster molds of each foot if using a computerized system like Amfit, which does essentially the same thing in a way that allows more input. It seems that maybe you have a misunderstanding of how lasts are used to build a shoe. Most importantly, it is the pilot rather than the plane.

[NYCfixie]

I had a foot medical issue that kept me in a boot for 6 months and then an ankle/heel brace for another 3 months. As such, I did a lot to learn about feet, how shoes fit, the different (though often very similar) ways custom makers fit people, and how "dress" shoe makers produce and/or alter wooden lasts. Not surprisingly, it "should" be the same for cycling shoes.

I also learned that I have one of the most difficult foot shapes to fit:
wide forefoot, slim waist, narrow heel, high arch, high instep
* If anyone has a foot shaped like mine, try the Alden Modified Last before you go full custom for your "dress" shoes and boots.

I have used Specialized "wide" shoes for several years but have not tried them lately (been off the bike for 18 months) so I am worried they may no longer work.


A few caveats for custom shoes:
- A good last maker does not make a good shoemaker.
- A good shoemaker does not make a good last maker.
- People have different preferences on how a shoe should fit (some like loose, some like tight, some like in-between) so share this with the maker.
- Makers should offer a "test" shoe before the final shoe is created (when/if possible) so they can alter the mold/pattern/last as needed.
- Fittings need to be done by the maker; no ifs, ands, or buts.
- The more measurements the better the final shoe will be.
- A plaster mold, crush box, 3D, or any other fitting tool is just 1 point of data showing the foot in a "static" position. A good maker will see how you walk, ride, and move in the shoe.


A few helpful videos:

296 ‒ Foot health: preventing common injuries, enhancing strength and mobility, & picking footwear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htF_...l=PeterAttiaMD


Bespoke Measurements With John Lobb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93OaebrbIoM


Bespoke Shoe Measurements With Legendary Lastmaker Tony Gaziano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCWvTqqvt7g
Bespoke Shoe Fitting With Legendary Lastmaker Tony Gaziano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z89RdEuCqSA
Final Fitting of my Bespoke Gaziano & Girling Shoes! With Tony Gaziano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMKyiPSZ91k


Bespoke Shoe Making Process: Measurements | Dominic Casey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcGGbYSugLs
How Bespoke Shoe Lasts are Made | By Dominic Casey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DAw4sJT-r4


Getting My Feet Measured by American Custom Shoemaker Francis Waplinger | Bespoke Process
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_7X8jwhV4s


Bespoke Shoe Fitting With Daniel Wegan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKNnfKrwJjY


Cowboy Boot Fitting | Texas Traditions Handmade Boots | Lee Miller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IMDJg1nOD8


3D Scanning Bespoke Shoes from Carmina Shoemaker | Getting Scanned and Ordering Shoes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHFkViQhqcA

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by djg21

We will have to disagree. There is no need to build and store plaster molds of each foot if using a computerized system like Amfit, which does essentially the same thing in a way that allows more input. It seems that maybe you have a misunderstanding of how lasts are used to build a shoe. Most importantly, it is the pilot rather than the plane.

Here's a comparison of what Riivo's plaster mold process got me versus what Don at D2 created. This now 12 year old pair of D2 Powerwires was the fourth of seven pairs of shoes that Don made me and it was the best fitting pair by far and it's probably why I wore them for 11 years.

The Riivo shoe's toe box is the shape of my foot. I have no pressure on any of the toes and there is room for all of them. Compare that shape to the shape of the D2 on the right.

It may well be the pilot rather than the plane, as you say, but I know which process I'd rather have my pilot use.

[oldguy00]

I have been through the ringer for custom shoes.....so much $$ spent... Much of my 'journey' has been documented on the forum..



My feet have always been a problem for me, pain that I used to think had to do with width, but in the end was more of a styloid issue, plus now small bunions.

- if you have true issues, don't waste time with heat moldable off the shelf shoes like bont or lake. Its marketing and will fix next to nothing for you. Yes you might be able to squeeze the top of the heel cup a bit narrower etc, but that is not what I'd consider a true fit/foot issue...

- I tried Rocket7's. Issues were - very uncomfortable the way they purposely shape the mold to have the front of your foot angle up. The straps would not pull through properly, like they were cut too wide, not sure. And the end product looked like it came from a school art class. I know that sounds harsh, but I'd be happy to post pics... I've literally only used them for a few minutes, they were so disappointing that I didn't even want to start the process of going back to R7 about them.

- Simmons - very cool hand made product, super light, but I would never do it again unless you have him doing the molds himself, and even then its a big challenge to get them comfortable because they are essentially a solid shell. If you have anything like a bunion etc. even if he molds it for them, it'll still be a rock hard upper pressing/rubbing on it. So in summary, cool shoe, hard to get perfect for comfort. If you have a pretty easy to fit foot, no issues, and you like the feel of a solid shoe like Bont, then Simmons might be a cool choice.

- Lamson - these are my favourite and currently what I am using. They aren't super light, but not much worse than an off the shelf typical pair of shoes. I like that, as others have mentioned, he has a bunch of sizes/widths to choose from, I like that the shoe is essentially flat, no big curves, and then he builds a custom insole for your specific needs.....not only based on a crush box, but more importantly, to take care of any special needs you may have, communicated via phone calls / emails. I had a long conversation with him about my pain points, about what my local podiatrist said was likely the issue (styloid, etc) and about how to correct it. The shoes turned out great. I did need to send them back once for a small fit correction, which he handled immediately, and they have been great since. ALSO, unlike the other two, I really like that his shoes look like a well built production shoe. I wouldn't hesitate to get another pair, but the quality seems so high that I don't see these wearing out for many many years.