Anyone here taking creatine supplements?

[Louis]

Any nutritionists or anyone particularly knowledgeable about the topic out there? Feel free to chime in.

As a vegetarian (mostly vegan, too) I'm debating whether I should consider supplementing with them.
Anything pro or con I should know about them?

The main reason I'm holding back is that I don't want to end up falling down the supplement rabbit-hole and a few months find myself taking creatine, taurine, BCAAs, etc. etc. etc. (see image below)

On the other hand, the last few months I've been spending more and more time in the gym, mostly doing the rowing machine, kettlebells + some other not terribly hard-core weightlifting, and miscellaneous core stuff. I currently do add a bit of protein powder to my smoothies (usually the pea protein from Trader Joes) and I take a basic multi-vitamin.

TIA

vvvvvvvvv Not me vvvvvvvvv

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by Louis

As a vegetarian (mostly vegan, too) I'm debating whether I should consider supplementing with them.

What's the objective?

[dsimon]

20 years in the military I have taken numerous things that we think will make us push/run/jump higher faster and better. from my laymans point of view BCAA are not to bad kinda expensive but will help maintain your muscle. but creatine to me just makes you carry water weight not something you wanted in the military it does take the burn away when your pushing through but youll have to weigh your own pros and cons.
just my.01 cent worth

[Octave]

I'll weigh in, as I've been vegan for the last 10 years and vegetarian for another 6 before that, and have gone through phases of looking to build significant muscle.

First, BCAAs should actually be your priority, not creatine. One of the few things that vegans are at risk of deficiency in is circulating BCAAs - meta-analyses have shown that other concerns, like B12, iron, and overall dietary protein deficiencies are exceedingly rare, but most vegans show low levels of plasma BCAAs. Then you get into BCAA ratio questions - 4:1:1 (leucine:isoleucine:valine) is better for recovery than 2:1:1, but you'll probably be fine with either. One thing to watch out for is overdoing it. There's some data that reaaaaally high levels of circulating BCAAs can reduce neurotransmitter uptake, leading to low serotonin levels in particular. So, don't drink them as your only source of liquid, but 12-15g/day is probably a healthy range.

I'd also look into ß-alanine. It's very common in pre-workout supplements, so for all you know you might already have enough, but it can be low in vegetarians and vegans. I get bloodwork done every year for my job (to make sure I'm not ingesting poisons...) and have never shown low levels of ß-alanine (nor BCAAs nor creatine, for that matter), but big datasets show that it is a common deficiency in athletic vegans.

As for creatine, this really depends on your goals. Is it safe? Yes. The water weight thing is actually way overblown and, in most people, only occurs during the "loading phase" and not when creatine is taken daily at doses up to 20g in average male adults. Will it make you put on more muscle? Maybe. The better reason to potentially take it is to ward off hyperhomocysteinemia, which can be a risk factor for adverse cardiovascular events. While vegetarian and vegan diets are very strongly correlated with lower risks of cardiovascular problems than omnivore diets, there is an oddly increased risk of hyperhomocysteinemia, and a recent study showed that supplementation with 5g/day of creatine corrected this problem in vegans. That being said, the risk rate is still very low for this problem, so I wouldn't go out and drop $$ on creatine just for that reason.


So, bottom line from my perspective is that your best money is on BCAAs. If you've got a little extra, put it in ß-alanine. And if you want to drop that third supplement into the mix, go for it.

When I was lifting heavy, doing winter bulk training for cycling, trying to improve my track sprint..etc., I found creatine to be pretty ineffective, but BCAAs hugely decreased my DOMs and reduced my recovery time in between hard efforts. I've gone through periods of taking no supplements and taking loads of them, and after the last 15+ years of experimenting, the only thing I take these days is BCAAs (10g/day, split into a morning post-workout drink and an evening drink), plus ZMA before bed.

[Bentley]

Originally Posted by dsimon

20 years in the military I have taken numerous things that we think will make us push/run/jump higher faster and better. from my laymans point of view BCAA are not to bad kinda expensive but will help maintain your muscle. but creatine to me just makes you carry water weight not something you wanted in the military it does take the burn away when your pushing through but youll have to weigh your own pros and cons.
just my.01 cent worth

The science behind it is not compelling.

[dlbracey]

As a pretty avid heavy lifter my numbers show improvement when I’m on creatine. I’ve been cycling it for the last couple years. It is possible that the improvement I experience when on it is in my head, but I doubt it. My only supplements are creatine, protein, vitamin D, and fish oil.

The better question as mentioned above is “what’s the objective?” It is cheap and harmless, but i think it is mostly useful for heavy lifting. If lifting heavy is your goal then creatine probably makes sense. If “being in shape” is your goal then it isn’t necessary and frankly with a healthy, properly balanced diet, no supplementation, including vitamins should be necessary.

[chunkylover53]

From my own brief experience...If your main activity is cycling (besides the gym stuff you mention), I don't really see much point. If you were into serious lifting or cross-fit etc., then I could see some benefits. It did add a lot of water weight for me - and I'm already big for a cyclist, so that's why I don't even think of it. Did I witness any performance benefits? Hmmmm....maybe, but not enough to make any significant difference. The only supplements I take are some protein powder and some BCAAs in summer when I am riding a lot.

[gbcoupe]

For what it's worth. My mother, a retired RN with years of experience used it while she was battling ALS. ALS won (always does), but she felt it was about the only thing including a plethora of drugs that made any difference.

[Louis]

Thanks for the info guys.

I'm definitely not into heavy lifting, but as was mentioned above, just stuff to be "in shape" and maybe improve, if I can. I've seen quite a bit from reputable sources that suggest that for vegetarian / vegans it and BCAAs are useful additions to the diet.

Right now I'm thinking of trying both at the bottom end of the recommended range of dosage and see if I notice any differences. I'm going to avoid the "all in one" products that throw in a bunch of other more questionable substances, and go with the single supplement products. Some quick research seems to indicate that Optimum Nutrition is a reputable manufacturer, so I'll probably go with them.

[Louis]

Well, I just placed the order, creatine and BCAAs - I'll be going from the Michael Rasmussen to Charles Atlas in no time.

Just kidding of course, both ends of the spectrum are excessive, but a few months from now I'll bump the thread if there's anything worth reporting, good or bad.

[Glinkk]

When I was actively engaged in sports, I took creatine at the same time. It helped my muscles recover faster, which allowed me to work out even more. After I got a little older (I'm already 35), I started to take other supplements, which were no longer associated with sports. Mostly I was taking multivitamins, which improved the whole body. However, later I started to notice that I needed something else. Lack of sleep and an unbalanced diet forced me to buy vitamins that can affect the body's cellular level. That allowed me to keep my shape, improve my sleep and feel a little younger.

[Waldo62]

Mark McGwire might still be...

[Hellgate]

Meh, I went straight to HGH, EPO, and T.