Frame builder rec

[parris]

I'm with Zen on this one. What does he really mean by demographic background? It just seems like an odd question. I could be way off but is he looking for a particular gender, age, race, etc etc etc? If he is what does that really have to do with the quality of a frame builders work?
How long has he been riding for?

[sparky33]

.

[pdmtong]

Why is it you are in charge of making a recommendation for your friend?

Let him narrow the field on his own and then possbily ask your opinion on the finalists.

Clearly the guy has his own ideas which are different from yours. That's fine, don't fight it. But don't let your self be sucked in to a proposal-rejection cycle.

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

Why is it you are in charge of making a recommendation for your friend?

Let him narrow the field on his own and then possbily ask your opinion on the finalists.

Clearly the guy has his own ideas which are different from yours. That's fine, don't fight it. But don't let your self be sucked in to a proposal-rejection cycle.

That has been a pretty accurate description, and it’s a good point. He asked for help, and he doesn’t totally listen, so it is a bit awkward. I’m doing my best to find someone he likes and who I think is a quality builder.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Aaron O

Maybe I should have just let him go with an art school newbie. Regardless of what I think, or others here think, it is his money, and I don’t love some of the insults, even if I may agree with the sentiment behind them.

He’s a very bright, successful guy, but he’s also a bit stubborn. Regardless, he is a friend that I’m trying to help find a person that appeals to him while also checking some of the boxes I look for.

He’s looking at Bishop, so there is hope.

That's great, but what happens when Bishop sends a build sheet and he gets Infinite Jest back in response with "feedback."

The trouble for your pal is established builders won't let something horrid walk out their door they know will be terrible, and your buddy won't approve of anything other than what he wants, even if it is terrible.

Irresistible force, immovable object.

[simonov]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

That's great, but what happens when Bishop sends a build sheet and he gets Infinite Jest back in response with "feedback."

The trouble for your pal is established builders won't let something horrid walk out their door they know will be terrible, and your buddy won't approve of anything other than what he wants, even if it is terrible.

Irresistible force, immovable object.

This is the thought that I had. Sure Bishop meets a bunch of those criteria, but I doubt he'd take a lot of input outside of some of the aesthetic preferences. Chris is a pro and would be an excellent choice, if the OP's friend was willing to let him do his thing.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

That's great, but what happens when Bishop sends a build sheet and he gets Infinite Jest back in response with "feedback."

The trouble for your pal is established builders won't let something horrid walk out their door they know will be terrible, and your buddy won't approve of anything other than what he wants, even if it is terrible.

Irresistible force, immovable object.

Many people own that book. But no one has actually read it.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by Aaron O

That has been a pretty accurate description, and it’s a good point. He asked for help, and he doesn’t totally listen, so it is a bit awkward. I’m doing my best to find someone he likes and who I think is a quality builder.

I had a friend who was getting into cycling, and asked me for a lot of input.

Each of us here have our own reasons for making the myriad of choices in bikes, clothes, accessories and I tried really hard to present the rationale for my choices as well as various perspectives that would help frame different paths for my firend. In the end, the guy just went to the shop, bought into everything the sales person said, and discarded all my input.

Very awkward balancing the idea that he was NOT obligated to take any of my advice against the reality he didn't think about ANYTHING I had suggested.

I know of someone whom a prominent frame builder decided "I don't think you are the right customer for us" and was "let go" by that builder. I hope your friend doesn't find himself in that position.

[Aaron O]

I appreciate everyone’s help. I may be defensive, but he is a valued friend, regardless of what I think of his bicycle choices.

[Aaron O]

I actually did read infinite jest, and also sweeping the broom of the system

I even forced myself through gravity’s rainbow and finnegan’s wake.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Aaron O

I actually did read infinite jest, and also sweeping the broom of the system

I even forced myself through gravity’s rainbow and finnegan’s wake.

Haha. You're in select company.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by Aaron O

Hi Gang,

A friend is looking to get his first custom. He has some very - specific - ideas, not all of which I agree with, and at least half I don't understand. I'm looking to recommend builders to him, and it's not going well.

...

Preference to a builder who also paints

...

Which builders also paint?

I won't argue his criteria - to each his own. But looking at the galleries is NOT how you pick a builder. It's how you pick a painter.

If he is focused on builder aesthetic, then it's
- lugs, TIG, filet
- dropouts
- seat cluster
- TT sloped v. level
- steel fork (and short v. large radius bend) v. carbon
- tube manipulation (bi-axially ovalized, stys flattened, curved, ovalized...)
- etc....

[zennmotion]

Repeating myself and others- take him over to Bilenky's shop because it's local, it would be fun for both of you. See how the sausage is made. Steve is enough of a unique free thinker, I could see chemistry. Then go visit Chris B in Bmore. Neither of these guys are particularly locked in to a narrow vision of a bike. It would be so much better than looking at the interwebs. You're both overthinking it.

[Blue Jays]

I am still blown-away that in 2019 the person is actually considering the framebuilder's race, ethnicity, and heritage as a part of the decision in awarding a commission to a highly-skilled artisan.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Aaron O

I appreciate everyone’s help. I may be defensive, but he is a valued friend, regardless of what I think of his bicycle choices.

BTW, you never did articulate what was meant by "diverse background." Would your friend consider a framebuilder's ethnicity or gender over reputation? I'm still curious. In and of itself, diversity in the framebuilding world is an interesting conversation to have.