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  #46  
Old 09-17-2019, 01:21 PM
XXtwindad XXtwindad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McM View Post
There currently is no speed limit on the Minuteman Bikeway where the accident occurred.




But there needs to be some form or regulations to maintain order. Without them, what is the difference between an e-bike and a motorcycle? Should Harley-Davidson riders be allowed on bike paths? What if they promise to ride safely?

While it is true that there are (pedal) cyclists who can ride faster than the electric assist limit of e-bikes, the practical reality is that they are a small percentage of the riding public, and that they don't do it often. But e-bikes (particularly throttle e-bikes) can be regularly ridden by almost anyone at higher rates of speed than most pedal cyclists. I'm very certain that if e-bikes were allowed on the bike path, the average speeds of cyclists would go up, and the frequency of high-speed passing would increase.


Well put.
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  #47  
Old 09-17-2019, 02:20 PM
Dude Dude is offline
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to clarify "electric bikes" isn't the correct terminology. The electric bike that the thread is originally talking about, a firefly with a bosch middrive motor is a pedal assisted electric bike. As in, the rider must be pedaling for the motor to be engaged. There are laws that apply to them. They can only go up to 20 or 28mph. After that, the motor doesn't provide any power.

Also, stop calling people fat.
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  #48  
Old 09-17-2019, 02:41 PM
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joosttx joosttx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude View Post
to clarify "electric bikes" isn't the correct terminology. The electric bike that the thread is originally talking about, a firefly with a bosch middrive motor is a pedal assisted electric bike. As in, the rider must be pedaling for the motor to be engaged. There are laws that apply to them. They can only go up to 20 or 28mph. After that, the motor doesn't provide any power.

Also, stop calling people fat.
I thought we were calling them ebikes not electric bikes which is an entirely different thing because ebike means pedal-assisted electric bike which is a more accurate description of an ebike than an electric bike.
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  #49  
Old 09-17-2019, 02:43 PM
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joosttx joosttx is offline
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Originally Posted by simplemind View Post
Haters gonna hate, but as said, the aging population is going to buy. I've witnessed a number of spouses/SO's riding with their fit "cyclists" and having a great time. Also opens up significantly more territory for unfit and fit together.
amen.

this will probably be my next bike:

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  #50  
Old 09-17-2019, 02:47 PM
benb benb is offline
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electric bike or eMoto is actually the correct term for most of what we are seeing though as we're seeing them hauling without any requirement to pedal.

The Firefly might be an eBike but a lot of what is out on the street in the US are really just lighter/slower versions of the Harley Davidson project.
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  #51  
Old 09-17-2019, 02:49 PM
Mark McM Mark McM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joosttx View Post
I thought we were calling them ebikes not electric bikes which is an entirely different thing because ebike means pedal-assisted electric bike which is a more accurate description of an ebike than an electric bike.
"ebike" obviously is short for "electric bike". The US Federal regulations recognizes several classes of ebikes, which include those which only provide pedal assist, and those which can also be throttle controlled. To avoid confusion, an ebike which only provides pedal assist is often referred to as a "pedelec" (i.e. pedal assist electric bike).
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  #52  
Old 09-17-2019, 03:25 PM
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joosttx joosttx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McM View Post
"ebike" obviously is short for "electric bike". The US Federal regulations recognizes several classes of ebikes, which include those which only provide pedal assist, and those which can also be throttle controlled. To avoid confusion, an ebike which only provides pedal assist is often referred to as a "pedelec" (i.e. pedal assist electric bike).
That sounds like a nickname for a pedophile. I like ebike more.
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  #53  
Old 09-17-2019, 04:28 PM
NHAero NHAero is offline
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I'm in favor of pedal-assist ebikes limited to 15 mph as in Europe, as Mark McM already mentioned. A year ago I was almost creamed on the SUP here in the State Forest on Martha's Vineyard by a guy coming around a corner almost out of control at about 25 mph on a electric bike with throttle, no pedaling needed. He was probably pushing 300 pounds and I wouldn't have fared well in that head-on crash.
We're a second home resort location so this is more true than many other places, but many people renting these ebikes haven't ridden a bike since they were 10 years old so their skills are lacking too.
Yesterday I was pushing hard near the end of a 4 hour ride, on the flat, and a fellow on an ebike passed me like I was in reverse. If he was speed-limited to 15 mph he wouldn't have passed me.

IIRC the Bosch unit Firefly is using is only 250W and is made for those speed limited pedal assisted bikes. I'm glad Firefly is working on making these available!
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  #54  
Old 09-17-2019, 05:42 PM
pasadena pasadena is offline
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Bosh makes mid drive motors that support 20mph to 28mph, which meet the govermental regs of Class 1, or 3 ebikes

I don't know the unit on the Firefly.
It looks like an older Bosch CX unit which was their most powerful. I believe limited to 25kph but very easy to take away the limiter.
If I had that Firefly, def would have the 75nm motor and limiter gone

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHAero View Post
I'm in favor of pedal-assist ebikes limited to 15 mph as in Europe, as Mark McM already mentioned. A year ago I was almost creamed on the SUP here in the State Forest on Martha's Vineyard by a guy coming around a corner almost out of control at about 25 mph on a electric bike with throttle, no pedaling needed. He was probably pushing 300 pounds and I wouldn't have fared well in that head-on crash.
We're a second home resort location so this is more true than many other places, but many people renting these ebikes haven't ridden a bike since they were 10 years old so their skills are lacking too.
Yesterday I was pushing hard near the end of a 4 hour ride, on the flat, and a fellow on an ebike passed me like I was in reverse. If he was speed-limited to 15 mph he wouldn't have passed me.

IIRC the Bosch unit Firefly is using is only 250W and is made for those speed limited pedal assisted bikes. I'm glad Firefly is working on making these available!

Last edited by pasadena; 09-17-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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  #55  
Old 09-17-2019, 07:32 PM
sg8357 sg8357 is offline
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Don't like the speed limiter on your Bosch ?
Get a SpeedBox2.

https://www.ebiketuning.com/speedbox-bosch-gen2.html
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  #56  
Old 09-17-2019, 07:39 PM
Jamie Medeiros Jamie Medeiros is offline
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Wow I am impressed by the conversation my new pedelec Firefly has received. This bicycle is using the Bosch Performance Speed motor. It is their 350 watt motor that provides assistance to 45 kph (28 mph) making it a class 3 pedelec. Before building this bike I put 2200 miles on a Trek super commuter 8+ which has the same motor to see if this was the system to go with. I looked at the Shimano system and it seemed more difficult for a small builder to use and harder to get. I also looked at the Superpedestrian Copenhagen wheel. The Copenhagen has a whole host of issues including no disc brake option and it needs to be connected to the internet to work. If your phone battery dies, your bike doesn't work.

In my 8 months testing the Bosch system I find I average around 18 mph for my 20 mile round trip commute. With the stop and go nature of it I find that I cruise along at between 20 - 24 mph. Having the head room of the 28 mph limit is nice. I think nothing now of hopping on the bike and running errands. It is faster and more efficient than the car for most trips in Boston.

I enjoy the pedelec aspect of the system. Twelve years ago I built a throttle controlled ebike and I find the pedelec system more intuitive and less obtrusive.

I really don't think I would bother if the assist limit was the 25kph (15mph) EU speed limit. I would ride on nice days and drive on others. From my research I have found one reason for this slow limit is the EU gas scooter lobby trying to protect their market share.
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  #57  
Old 09-17-2019, 11:35 PM
pasadena pasadena is offline
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imo, mid-drive is the best system. Hub motors and something worse, like the Copenhagen wheel (as clever and stylish solution it is), just make the wheel way too heavy and compromise handling- they are a 'budget' or 'conversion' solution but not ideal.

Bosch mid drive is just so seamless feeling, they really have that refined quality going for it.

The bike is gorgeous, it must turn heads in Boston!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Medeiros View Post
Wow I am impressed by the conversation my new pedelec Firefly has received. This bicycle is using the Bosch Performance Speed motor. It is their 350 watt motor that provides assistance to 45 kph (28 mph) making it a class 3 pedelec. Before building this bike I put 2200 miles on a Trek super commuter 8+ which has the same motor to see if this was the system to go with. I looked at the Shimano system and it seemed more difficult for a small builder to use and harder to get. I also looked at the Superpedestrian Copenhagen wheel. The Copenhagen has a whole host of issues including no disc brake option and it needs to be connected to the internet to work. If your phone battery dies, your bike doesn't work.

In my 8 months testing the Bosch system I find I average around 18 mph for my 20 mile round trip commute. With the stop and go nature of it I find that I cruise along at between 20 - 24 mph. Having the head room of the 28 mph limit is nice. I think nothing now of hopping on the bike and running errands. It is faster and more efficient than the car for most trips in Boston.

I enjoy the pedelec aspect of the system. Twelve years ago I built a throttle controlled ebike and I find the pedelec system more intuitive and less obtrusive.

I really don't think I would bother if the assist limit was the 25kph (15mph) EU speed limit. I would ride on nice days and drive on others. From my research I have found one reason for this slow limit is the EU gas scooter lobby trying to protect their market share.
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  #58  
Old 09-18-2019, 05:13 AM
Burnette Burnette is offline
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Nice Bike!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Evans View Post
Yup! Finally out of the prototype stage and into production. Instead of focusing on making a specific eModel, we have instead focused on making an eUpgrade to any of our existing models. This one is a commuter.

eBikes are kind of polarizing to the cycling community but they do serve a purpose. They are efficient transportation. In this case, don't think of it as replacing a bike, but like replacing a car. Boston traffic can suck hard in a car. An eBike commuter makes it tolerable. Gotta run errands after work? No problem. Gotta find parking in Cambridge? No problem. All this during rush hour? No problem.





As someone with self diagnosed OCPD I appreciate the time and effort to get details nailed down right on Fireflys. And it carries over to the presentation, photos of your bikes are well done.

It may have been happenstance but I like the way the rear fender brace lines up with the top of the chain and again with the front fender brace. Nice bike and great pics.

As far as Ebikes go, I have been an advocate for cycling for along time and by telling people about cycling I found barriers that some couldn't overcome. Ebikes close at least one gap for some and I see it as a good thing.

It gets people out there with us who may not ever of have done it without this option. And having more people enjoying an activity we enjoy, even if it's a different way will provide benefits going forward. The more of us there are, assisted or not, the louder our voices will be for new laws and infrastructure plans.

I have always appreciated the work that Firefly puts out and I'm glad to see you continue to see cycling from a big and diverse perspective.
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