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  #1  
Old 06-19-2019, 09:21 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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Setback: Thanks, Dave Kirk.

Some years ago I came across a post here where Dave Kirk gave a link to something he'd written and posted previously. The simple, well-explained instruction was very helpful to me at the time and today I wanted to refer to it as I setup a new bike. I found his blog post and noticed that the date was 10 years ago today.

Thanks, Dave!
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2019, 08:26 AM
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David Kirk David Kirk is offline
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Very cool - I like that the old post is still helping riders.

dave
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2019, 09:23 AM
Ernesto Ernesto is offline
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Yeah, I remember reading that post several years ago and it was a great help to me.

Thanks Dave!
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2019, 10:39 AM
brownhound brownhound is offline
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Ooh - gonna use that! I like little tips like that to think about while riding.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:38 PM
shoota shoota is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirk View Post
Very cool - I like that the old post is still helping riders.

dave
I've used this method before and found it to be helpful as well. Thanks
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  #6  
Old 07-16-2019, 09:57 PM
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Steve in SLO Steve in SLO is offline
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I, too have been using this for years and have never officially thanked Dave.
Thanks, Dave!
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  #7  
Old 07-21-2019, 09:11 AM
54ny77 54ny77 is offline
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Holy timewarp, yes I remember reading this way back when as well and did this exact test & adjustment! My knee found its happy medium a couple of cm behind the spindle. Thanks Dave!
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  #8  
Old 07-21-2019, 11:30 AM
truth truth is offline
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I'm curious if anyone knows:

What factors affect determined setback (I've heard a lot about femur length?)?

What ranges of setback are determined with this method?

I find myself at 11 cm which seems like it may be quite a bit.
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  #9  
Old 07-23-2019, 08:43 AM
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BdaGhisallo BdaGhisallo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth View Post
I'm curious if anyone knows:

What factors affect determined setback (I've heard a lot about femur length?)?

What ranges of setback are determined with this method?

I find myself at 11 cm which seems like it may be quite a bit.
Femur length is a huge determining factor, there's no doubt.
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:24 PM
Moyboy Moyboy is offline
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I find if my setback isnt correct i get knee pain. I was off by 1.5cm and could feel it in my right knee.
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  #11  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:25 PM
l0n3rider l0n3rider is offline
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in my opinion - disclaimer: i'm not an expert

it's not so much about the numbers .. it's more about balancing act. it is natural to our body to perform the balancing act .. and the first option is they easiest way out .. BUT most of the time the easiest is not the most optimized or the most economical in the long run

for example .. to support the upper body weight, our body will use the hands .. resulting in numbness after some times .. then we will shift the upper body weight more towards the saddle by sitting more upright .. which in the long run will compress the lower back ..

another option is to move the saddle more to the back (more setback) .. less weight to the front center of the bike .. but this will closed the hip angle .. resulting in overstretch to reach the handle bar .. and outside of the hip flexor range .. which resulted in knee pain in the long run .. knee has to move outward during the TDC ..

so the method propose by Kirk is a good way to start pondering on the balancing act .. and better still if you could try Ti Designs method .. which a step further by re-wiring the brain to optimize balancing to our advantage

sorry for very long-winded story
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:09 PM
rcornejo rcornejo is offline
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Hello dear fellow members of this forum,

I wonder if it's possible to do this test in an indoor trainer... and to obtain valid results I mean...

Regards from Chile,

Roberto
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2019, 12:59 PM
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David Kirk David Kirk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcornejo View Post
Hello dear fellow members of this forum,

I wonder if it's possible to do this test in an indoor trainer... and to obtain valid results I mean...

Regards from Chile,

Roberto
Could you do it on a trainer indoors?....I suppose so if you can't ride outdoors. I think the overall balance of actually riding is all part of the equation and this is something that just isn't the same indoors.

dave
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2019, 02:02 PM
woodworker woodworker is offline
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I will try this out, but I find the adjustment to be counterintuitive.

This is the recommendation from Dave's blog post: "If you tend to fall forward when your hands are lifted it’s a good bet your saddle could go back. If you tend to fall back then your saddle is way too far back. The latter is pretty rare."

I'm trying to visualize this. If you tend to fall forward, then the saddle should go back. To me, it seems like this would make you fall forward more, as you would be more stretched out on the bike. But I may be all wrong.

Perhaps in moving the seat back, you have shifted your weight back slightly, placing less of your weight on the bars?

While my hands rarely hurt, and I tend to be pretty good in terms of staying low and using my glues, I don't think that I would stay up off of the bars doing the test. ...will check it our.

Thanks.
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2019, 02:05 PM
MikeD MikeD is offline
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I don't think this method is any better than COPS. Seems to me you can have your saddle too far back with this method. Back in the day, the LeMond method recommended a saddle that was far back. I set up my bike that way and I got hamstring pain.
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