Drunk, wrong way driver kills cyclist

[Louis]

Originally Posted by BobO

That's irrelevant to the point. She is a criminal who took a life, she deserves to be punished severely.

It's 100% relevant to your statement that you "don't care about the reasons."

I agree that justice needs to be done and that she should be punished, but that's hardly the only issue one needs to address. We've tried the "jack up drug-related offense" sentences way high, and look at where that got us with the "drug problem" - jails full of offenders, and still a massive drug problem across the country.

You can't just put blinders on and lock 'em up and throw away the key - you have to understand the problem and understand the types of solutions that might help.

[BobO]

Originally Posted by Louis

It's 100% relevant to your statement that you "don't care about the reasons."

I agree that justice needs to be done and that she should be punished, but that's hardly the only issue one needs to address. We've tried the "jack up drug-related offense" sentences way high, and look at where that got us with the "drug problem" - jails full of offenders, and still a massive drug problem across the country.

You can't just put blinders on and lock 'em up and throw away the key - you have to understand the problem and understand the types of solutions that might help.

You're more than welcome to start a thread discusing the politics of DUI cause and punishment. This isn't the thread for it and a hearty "F her" is entirely appropriate when discussing the homicide of a good man.

[froze]

Originally Posted by Louis

It's 100% relevant to your statement that you "don't care about the reasons."

I agree that justice needs to be done and that she should be punished, but that's hardly the only issue one needs to address. We've tried the "jack up drug-related offense" sentences way high, and look at where that got us with the "drug problem" - jails full of offenders, and still a massive drug problem across the country.

You can't just put blinders on and lock 'em up and throw away the key - you have to understand the problem and understand the types of solutions that might help.

While I agree with you to a point, the problem is with throwing someone in prison is that they don't offer any help for a person with a drug or alcohol problem, they just sit in jail watching TV and fighting off scumbags. Instead they should be put into a very regimental drug/alcohol abuse program that lasts say a year if the sentence is a short term one. But in this case she blatantly killed a person, she wasn't trying to sell a small amount of drugs to someone, or using a small amount of drugs and got caught before someone innocent died and now sent to rot in jail for several years...that is in my opinion a waste of time because as you said it's done nothing to curb the drug problem; but she stepped over the line when she killed someone, and that's were the difference lies, and that's why she should spend an extended time in jail for her actions.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by BobO

You're more than welcome to start a thread discusing the politics of DUI cause and punishment. This isn't the thread for it and a hearty "F her" is entirely appropriate when discussing the homicide of a good man.

Perhaps but with the current state of incarceration, chances are she’ll get out of prison worse than she went in. Not because I feel sorry for her but because the chances or her repeating is very high. Clearly the present ‘system’ for these types of offenses isn’t working. There is no ‘rehabilitation’, just revenge based punishment.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Perhaps but with the current state of incarceration, chances are she’ll get out of prison worse than she went in. Not because I feel sorry for her but because the chances or her repeating is very high. Clearly the present ‘system’ for these types of offenses isn’t working. There is no ‘rehabilitation’, just revenge based punishment.

There are drug rehab programs in prison. In some cases Inmates can reduce their sentence if they complete the program/programs

[redir]

Originally Posted by Louis

In some situations the threat of enforcement of the law after a crime has been committed isn't enough to deter criminals.

Sometimes you need to understand why the crime is being committed to have any hope taking actions to deter potential criminals and reducing the crime rate.

Yup square peg, round hole, see it all the time. Of course she deserves what is coming to her, hopefully. But without addressing the real issue putting people in prisons will not solve the problem. It certainly makes us feel better though.

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by Louis

In some situations the threat of enforcement of the law after a crime has been committed isn't enough to deter criminals.

Sometimes you need to understand why the crime is being committed to have any hope taking actions to deter potential criminals and reducing the crime rate.

The logical side agrees...

The other part hopes she gets shiv'd to spare "us" court costs and the families prolonged suffering.

[William]

Originally Posted by redir

... But without addressing the real issue putting people in prisons will not solve the problem. It certainly makes us feel better though.

Sometimes people demonstrate (often with tragic consequences ) that they can't function lawfully in the general public. Reasons for their behavior can be multifaceted but that doesn't excuse the outcome. Separation from the general public is warranted in cases of violent and/or behavior where death occurs. It's not about making people "feel" better, it's about demonstrating there are consequences for unlawful behavior in society.






William

[Tony]

Originally Posted by William

Sometimes people demonstrate (often with tragic consequences ) that they can't function lawfully in the general public. Reasons for their behavior can be multifaceted but that doesn't excuse the outcome. Separation from the general public is warranted in cases of violent and/or behavior where death occurs. It's not about making people "feel" better, it's about demonstrating there are consequences for unlawful behavior in society.

William

Agree

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Perhaps but with the current state of incarceration, chances are she’ll get out of prison worse than she went in. Not because I feel sorry for her but because the chances or her repeating is very high. Clearly the present ‘system’ for these types of offenses isn’t working. There is no ‘rehabilitation’, just revenge based punishment.

Truth. Everyone wants punishment for an injustice and that is legitimate, however when we ignore rehabilitation and prevention we are condemning someone else to the same injustice in the future. We can have both punishment, rehabilitation, and prevention all at the same time. The smart money is on the rehab and prevention side if you want to save lives and money.

[William]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

... when we ignore rehabilitation and prevention we are condemning someone else to the same injustice in the future. We can have both punishment, rehabilitation, and prevention all at the same time. The smart money is on the rehab and prevention side if you want to save lives and money.

I don't disagree that rehabilitation can be successful, it can change some people's behavior. Often the problem occurs when they get out and end up in the same environment they were in before hand. Same pressures and influences (and possibly dysfunctional) from family and friends. I think success is much more probable if they can also get away from those influences/pressures.


But we are drifting here.






William

[froze]

Originally Posted by Tony

There are drug rehab programs in prison. In some cases Inmates can reduce their sentence if they complete the program/programs

Right, while they complete those classes they also suddenly find Jesus and now their entirely different then before...till they get out and go back to drinking and driving while under license suspension. I knew a guy that had to take classes for year and was given some sort of chemical that if you drank you immediately threw up, he was on that for almost a year while he was in rehab, after the year was up guess what? yup, he went back to drinking.

So these programs are not working either, in fact the success rate is a astonishing low 3 to 10%. Lindsay Lohan went 4 times to rehab centers with no success. I know you can find success percentages on the internet at 30% but those have been proven dubious but they keep pushing that percentage because the money coming from the federal government so some success has to be shown or they'll shut them all down.

https://www.soberforever.net/currenttreatdoesnt.cfm

[parris]

I've seen a bit of this over the years and what I see is it comes down to the person that's going through rehab. It doesn't matter how good the program is either. The person going through rehab has to WANT and ACCEPT it in order for it to have any real chance of success.

One of the other posters hit on an important component which is the person that's gone through rehab pretty much needs to get right away from his/her former life and contacts. If they don't do that it's generally a matter of time before the temptation combined with circumstance draws them back into the life.

For the driver in the case it's going to be interesting to see how the case unfolds.

[William]

Originally Posted by parris

I... an important component which is the person that's gone through rehab pretty much needs to get right away from his/her former life and contacts. If they don't do that it's generally a matter of time before the temptation combined with circumstance draws them back into the life.

For the driver in the case it's going to be interesting to see how the case unfolds.

From what I've seen first hand this is a huge point. Not only from the temptation of being around the former influences, but also because their presence as one trying to change causes the others to become uncomfortable. If the reformer has admitted they had a problem and need to change, that means the "others" might also have a problem. Many times they will actively try to pull the reformer back in, not from malice per say, but from the fact that they are made uncomfortable by the reformers presence.









William

[redir]

Originally Posted by William

Sometimes people demonstrate (often with tragic consequences ) that they can't function lawfully in the general public. Reasons for their behavior can be multifaceted but that doesn't excuse the outcome. Separation from the general public is warranted in cases of violent and/or behavior where death occurs. It's not about making people "feel" better, it's about demonstrating there are consequences for unlawful behavior in society.






William

Sometime people who have demonstrated that they tragically cannot function within a civil society prove otherwise that they can too.

Again, and I want to be perfectly clear about this, this women needs harsh punishment. But it still doesn't address the problem. People always want to blame addicts for this that and the other thing as though it's their personal choice, it's really not. Some people are predisposed to certain addictions and while the majority of the 'punish them all' crowd just wants to put them all in prisons, like it will eliminate it from the gene pool or something, statistics over and over and over again show that it doesn't work.

There is lots of new science and treatment programs that treat addiction as the medical problem that it actually is. So if and when this really hits the mainstream addiction will be seen as nothing more then other genetic disease like IDK narcolepsy or something. The problem with addiction is that it requires and outside source, a 3rd party if you will. And so the general public see's that as 'a choice' that the attic makes. The dynamics of it are fluid though. You see it more and more with this terrible opiate epidemic. A child born to an addicted mother is not given 'a choice.'

My personal believe based on experience and research is that we'd be better off as a society if we treated a lot of things on a medical model rather then a crime and punishment one. The reality is that it's somewhere in between.