OT: WaterRower or Concept2 Erg

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by Ozz

anyone else think this looks like a rip-off of a La Vie Claire jersey:
https://store.moma.org/home/vases/mo...24-122524.html

Uh, the LVC jersey was inspired by Mondian’s paintings. They were quite open about that. My favoriate team kit to this day.

Tim

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Uh, the LVC jersey was inspired by Mondian’s paintings. They were quite open about that. My favoriate team kit to this day.

Tim

Well I guess that explains it!

[CaptStash]

I will join the parade of recommending the Concept 2. Like a few others, I started with a Model A, and am now on a Model C, which is getting a lot of use in my basement now that the weather is making it harder to get on the water. I have been rowing (sometimes at a relatively high level) since 1979 and remember when the brothers Dreissegacker invented the modern rowing maching. They changed everything. Nowafays the Concept 2 is literally used worldwide. It's only significant competition is teh RowPerfect, which some teams seem to prefer due to it supposedly having a feel that is more like the boat. I don't buy the physics argument that a RowPerfect is easier on your back but I also haven't rowed one.

I have rowed a water rower, and while I think it is a nice enough machine and a nice to look at, I don't think it is in the same league as a piece of training equipment as a Concept 2 or RowPerfect. Plus teh C2 is significantly less expensive, and as noted, has amazing customer service.

Finally, the OP mentioned he wanted to use the rowing machine to improve upper body strength. Just a reminder that Olympic style sliding seat rowing is a full body, highly aerobic, exercise that translates well to cycling, but isn't an effective way to bulk up your upper body.


CaptStash....

[LegendRider]

Originally Posted by CaptStash

I will join the parade of recommending the Concept 2. Like a few others, I started with a Model A, and am now on a Model C, which is getting a lot of use in my basement now that the weather is making it harder to get on the water. I have been rowing (sometimes at a relatively high level) since 1979 and remember when the brothers Dreissegacker invented the modern rowing maching. They changed everything. Nowafays the Concept 2 is literally used worldwide. It's only significant competition is teh RowPerfect, which some teams seem to prefer due to it supposedly having a feel that is more like the boat. I don't buy the physics argument that a RowPerfect is easier on your back but I also haven't rowed one.

I have rowed a water rower, and while I think it is a nice enough machine and a nice to look at, I don't think it is in the same league as a piece of training equipment as a Concept 2 or RowPerfect. Plus teh C2 is significantly less expensive, and as noted, has amazing customer service.

Finally, the OP mentioned he wanted to use the rowing machine to improve upper body strength. Just a reminder that Olympic style sliding seat rowing is a full body, highly aerobic, exercise that translates well to cycling, but isn't an effective way to bulk up your upper body.


CaptStash....

I had a Model B for years and now use a Model D.

Now that I'm north of 50 my back occasionally feels weird after rowing workouts and I'm very leery of hurting myself. I've heard that dynamic ergs are easier on the back but I've never had the opportunity to use one. I'm intrigued however.

[happycampyer]

Originally Posted by batman1425

You ever have the privilege of using a Model A and have one of the resistance cards let go? That'll keep you on your toes.

Can't say enough good about C2 after 100's of thousands of K's on them in the 15 some years I was a competitive rower. Built like tanks. The Model C my folks bought for me as a HS rower in 1999 is still going strong with only minimal maintenance.

My rec - don't buy one new. Too many well looked after ones out there to justify full price. Look around for a local college or club program. They turn them over relatively quickly, not because of wear, but for the features. Get a new handle (for cleanliness reasons), give it an overall clean and oil the chain and you are good to go. I'm partial to the Model C because it was the most commonly used version in the meat of my rowing days. The D and E's have a slightly softer catch transition (think Sram vs. Shimano in shifter feedback) which I don't prefer, but it doesn't change functionality at all. The computer units on the later models are nicer than the original ones, though this is less important for general fitness needs.

If you want to step up your game - look at a dynamic version of the C2, a Rowperfect, or get a set of sliders for a standard C2. You get a lot more core engagement with a dynamic erg but they take a lot more practice to master.

My old college rowing program is looking to replace all of their C2s with RowPerfects, but the RP3s are over 3x the price of the C2, so that is going to take some time. The cost of the RP3 will probably allow C2 to dominate the the market for competitive rowing programs pretty much indefinitely. I tried an RP3 and didn’t think that it was as smooth as the C2, so go figure. I have a C2 Dynamic erg, which is sort of a poor-man’s RP3. It feels much more like being in a boat than the standard erg, but I think C2 tries to screen who buys them—they don’t want people who’ve never rowed buying them just because they take up less space than a standard erg.

To LegendRider, the Dynamic erg is definitely easier on the back—the catch is not as heavy, and you aren’t moving your body mass back and forth.

To the OP, if having something that doesn’t look like a piece of commercial exercise equipment in your living room is of primary importance, then get the water rower. Otherwise, the C2 erg is the way to go for all of the reasons described above.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by LegendRider

I had a Model B for years and now use a Model D.

Now that I'm north of 50 my back occasionally feels weird after rowing workouts and I'm very leery of hurting myself. I've heard that dynamic ergs are easier on the back but I've never had the opportunity to use one. I'm intrigued however.

I've used dynamic ergs a few times but never as a consistent part of my training plan. You get a lot more core involvement. From a boat feel perspective they are invaluable and a great way to teach novices to "draw your feet to you" instead of slamming into the catch. Also less of your energy is used to move your own mass, just the mass of the machine which is much smaller - again akin to real rowing where you are really drawing the boat forward underneath you than yourself to the stretcher.

For people with poor technique, I think that extra intertia from your center of mass moving and the force needed to overcome it and start moving it in the opposite direction could translate to decreased back pain. Lots of novices slam into the catch and load the backs improperly at the catch. I cringe when I see a bent "C" at the catch.... Dynamic or not, you still have to load the back and use it as a lever for transmission of the leg drive, but the transition and inertia are much different. A dynamic erg also provides more immediate feedback when you are doing it wrong.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by happycampyer

I have a C2 Dynamic erg, which is sort of a poor-man’s RP3. It feels much more like being in a boat than the standard erg, but I think C2 tries to screen who buys them—they don’t want people who’ve never rowed buying them just because they take up less space than a standard erg.

To LegendRider, the Dynamic erg is definitely easier on the back—the catch is not as heavy, and you aren’t moving your body mass back and forth.

^^This. They are much harder to get right. I would never put someone without a good bit of experience on a dynamic erg. A benefit is it is easier to hit higher stroke rates and for long pieces fatigue goes down from the reduced inertial changes. So your times are often faster on a dynamic compared to stationary erg all other things equal. Neither of those is of much value to a non-rower though.

[MattTuck]

Evocative of the French Revolution...

[adub]

Thanks for all the replies, ended up going with a C2 model D.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by adub

Thanks for all the replies, ended up going with a C2 model D.

Congratulations - it's the better machine, and you won't regret it.

You've probably already seen it, but in case you haven't there's a C2 forum that's useful for any questions you might have: (although C2 themselves are super-helpful)

https://www.c2forum.com/

[godfrey1112000]

Quality and great price

Originally Posted by Bentley

I have one, it’s awesome. Complete body workout. Concept 2 is what real rowers use when they are not in the water. Water rower is an odd piece of equipment and does not give the same physical feedback that you get in a boat. More important, it’s bullet proof and parts are readily available

[AngryScientist]

the other thing about the C2 is that they are reasonably easy to find used, and generally very lightly used.

i got mine on craigslist years ago and it's been a great off-season tool. because of their great build quality and lifetime serviceability, you can confidently buy a pre-owned model for a bargain.

[happycampyer]

For those who like to track their workouts, I highly recommend creating a logbook on the C2 website, and downloading C2’s free app, ErgData. If you have the latest generation performance monitor, the PM5, you can connect your phone via bluetooth and hrm via Ant+. For earlier PM models, you need to get a connection kit from C2.

C2 runs “challenges” at different times of the year, which can serve as a good motivational tool.

[adub]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

the other thing about the C2 is that they are reasonably easy to find used, and generally very lightly used.

i got mine on craigslist years ago and it's been a great off-season tool. because of their great build quality and lifetime serviceability, you can confidently buy a pre-owned model for a bargain.

The few used ones in my market were priced within 20% of new and none of them had the newer PM5 head unit.
Ended up buying new.

Originally Posted by happycampyer

For those who like to track their workouts, I highly recommend creating a logbook on the C2 website, and downloading C2’s free app, ErgData. If you have the latest generation performance monitor, the PM5, you can connect your phone via bluetooth and hrm via Ant+. For earlier PM models, you need to get a connection kit from C2.

C2 runs “challenges” at different times of the year, which can serve as a good motivational tool.

All set up with the app that syncs to the logbook from the PM5.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by adub

The few used ones in my market were priced within 20% of new and none of them had the newer PM5 head unit.
Ended up buying new.

As you've found, because they really don't wear out unless they've really been abused, they hold their value very well. So if for some reason you decide to sell it in the next few years, you'll be getting a significant % of your money back.