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#1
02-14-2019, 12:11 AM
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Custom Frames and New Builders
Something cool versus something good.
Why? A buddy just bought a klunker from a builder who's been in the industry for a few months. I don't understand the consumer psychology here. I get standing in line for 2 days for a new drop at Supreme or spending $600 for a scarf from a 21 year old designer who will be the next Tom Ford. But a year's worth of house payments for a frame you'll ride 4x a month? No judgment! Just wondering how people rationalize sending their hard earned cash to a non-proven entity for a discretionary bike purchase. In other words, why did the first 50 guys and gals send their cash off to Sacha. Or what's your thought process in the post-Serotta era. Are people still rational or is it all about emotion and experience? Last edited by m4rk540; 02-14-2019 at 12:39 AM. 
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#2
02-14-2019, 04:01 AM
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This is only a guess at my part, but I would bet it was about the relationship between the builder and the customer. That connection, that bond, is what seals the deal.
Even now, that is what drove me to buy my custom bike from an established builder. I have been to a few NAHBS and Philly Bike Expos and talked to builders. The person I chose to build my bike was the person I liked the best, who I thought was genuine and the one I wanted to give my money to. We seem to click on a level that I found comfortable. For me it was about the relationship.
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#3
02-14-2019, 06:24 AM
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Not sure what special demarcation Serotta’s closing has to do with this question. This has been a topic on this board for as long as I can remember, going back before I joined. I think NAHBS indirectly contributed to or helped validate the phenomenon with its new builder section, but my guess is the expanded use of the internet beginning in the 2000’s was when it became possible to hang out a virtual shingle and attract a wider audience than just the people in your town or local area.
There are still several larger shops where one can learn the craft before setting out on one’s own—Moots, Seven, IF, etc. Each of those companies has been the training ground for some of the best builders in the industry, alongside Kirk, Wages, Bedford and No. 22 (among others) from Serotta. As far as why one would buy from a builder with little formal training? I agree with blakcloud that it’s hard to say. The one builder with little formal experience who really struck me with his designs was Ezra Caldwell (Fast Boy Cycles)—I wish I had bought one of his bikes before he passed away from cancer.
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#4
02-14-2019, 06:39 AM
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/\ Ezra's bikes were amazing.
and althought I get where you are coming from (the OP), everyone has to start from somewhere and some guys are just good at this. Look at bishop. Dude is young and for a while he did not have that many bikes under his belt but man but his bikes always have looked amazing. However I do expect a little discount from a new builder (by new I mean new new not someone that is considered new compared to the dinosaur builders) but someone in his first year of building.
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#5
02-14-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Last edited by m4rk540; 02-14-2019 at 12:25 PM.
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#6
02-14-2019, 11:41 AM
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#7
02-14-2019, 12:35 PM
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>>Serotta was kind of the gold standard. And its gravitational pull brought many into the bespoke orbit. Without Serotta and this forum, most of the people I know on custom bikes would be riding Giants. But that was pre-Instagram and pre-Radavist.
Things go much farther back, Bruce Gordon, Eisenstruat (sp), Weigle, Sach's of course, probably back in the 70's and 80's was more regionalized, then the "children" started (in MA Chris Chance the daddy) and IF, Seven, Firefly, etc.
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#9
02-14-2019, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Peter Sagan 1.4M Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/petosagan/ Specialized 982K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/iamspecialized/ Chris Froom 911K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/chrisfroome/ Team Sky 744K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/teamsky/ Alberto Contador 652K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/acontadoroficial/ Rapha 417K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/rapha/ Sir Brad Wiggins 347K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/bradwiggins/ Lance Armstrong 264K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/lancearmstrong/ The Radavist 167K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/theradavist/ MASH San Francisco 123K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/mashsf/ Red Hook Crit 120K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/redhookcrit/ Ultra Romance 95.6K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/ultraromance/ The Vanilla Workshop 90.3K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/thevanillaworkshop/ Firefly 61.7K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/fireflybicycles/ Julia Favero 60.6K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/franceantarctique/ donalrey from the internet 59.3K Followers https://www.instagram.com/donalrey/ Ten Speed Hero 52K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/tenspeedhero/ Retired Pro Phil Gaimon 47K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/philgaimon/ Liisa Kiddo 45.4K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/liisakiddo/ Squid Bikes 38.3K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/squidbikes/ Rivendell 32.3K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/rivbike/ Cory Williams 28.7K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/nationsnumber1beast/ Sklar Bikes 27K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/sklarbikes/ The Vegan Cyclist 25.8K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/the_vegan_cyclist/ Richard Sachs 22.8K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/therichardsachs/ Outside Is Fred 19.8K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/outsideisfred/ Bicyclepubes 13.9K Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/bicyclepubes/ Durianrider 300 Million Views on youtube 3679 Instagram Followers https://www.instagram.com/durianriders/ ns/baw (not scientific/bored at work) Last edited by m4rk540; 02-14-2019 at 08:40 PM.
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#10
02-14-2019, 09:38 PM
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Red Hook Crit has basically admitted they don't generate enough cash flow to cover their costs, and they are right behind the Radavist on instagram.
Are these numbers translatable into cash? How much income does each generate from the platforms listed? Quote:
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#11
02-14-2019, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
On the flip if a small builder catches one of these peoples eye then all of the sudden theyre in the spotlight.
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#12
02-15-2019, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Last edited by colker; 02-15-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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#13
02-15-2019, 04:50 PM
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You’d be surprised what kind of idiotic purchase people make off of social media. I’m going to use this as a very general example but the Contax T2 is a great camera. It always has been. I’ve had a couple—and sold them and recognize the quality. A few years back one of the Jenner’s (I’m not sure which one) started carrying one around and the price sky rocketed. I just sold my friends T2 data back for $1000. I completely attribute this to an “influencer” signaling that this product was “cool” Not exactly an apples to apples comparison but the connection I’m trying to make is that these social media presences do have an effect on people’s perception.
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#14
02-15-2019, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Last edited by colker; 02-15-2019 at 05:10 PM.
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#15
02-15-2019, 05:14 PM
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I'm sure they're great bikes, and I have no quibbles with the builders, but in the end, for my last "dream" bike, I'm going with a builder who built another frame I already own, and is a hell of a nice guy. He's really down to earth, and is also a family man, which matters to me now that I have kids.
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