Question for the bike gear nerds???

[Hilltopperny]

1x set ups can work just fine for non competitive cycling. I have done it and isn't that bad. E-Thirteen makes some very nice cassettes that start with a 9t and range from 32-46 iirc. For party pace or general riding it can be done, but as mentioned 2x is just fine and doesn't really have any compromises.

[jkbrwn]

It's never been about range. It's about finding the perfect cadence. Never gonna happen with 1x.

[JoB]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Make mine 46x30 and 12x25/27 - plenty of gears at the bottom, coast when you run out, and enjoy tight supple clicks across the range.

totally agree with this. 46-12 is approx. a 53-14. Not easy to turn over that kind of gear in hilly country. and while it's not a major thing, I'm wondering what about chain resistance in a 9-gear cog. it's already not great in an 11.

[mtechnica]

I've found 40 or 42T front with 11 speed 10-42 to be surprisingly useable on the road.

I really think people can live without a higher gear than the 10t provides and less than 1:1 on a road bike is IMO unusual and unnecessary.

I think it's funny people whine about 1x theoretically being worse than 2x but then also have bikes with 5-7 speed drivetrains that they ride. Let's talk about your 13-26t freewheel and 42/53t crankset shall we.

Anyway yes I think double is better for the road but 1x is completely useable in practice if you're willing to accept the compromise in gear ratio gaps and not being able to pedal at 40mph.

That said I don't see 1x ever replacing 2x as the default for road bikes.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

I've found 40 or 42T front with 11 speed 10-42 to be surprisingly useable on the road.

I really think people can live without a higher gear than the 10t provides and less than 1:1 on a road bike is IMO unusual and unnecessary.

I think it's funny people whine about 1x theoretically being worse than 2x but then also have bikes with 5-7 speed drivetrains that they ride. Let's talk about your 13-26t freewheel and 42/53t crankset shall we.

Anyway yes I think double is better for the road but 1x is completely useable in practice if you're willing to accept the compromise in gear ratio gaps and not being able to pedal at 40mph.

That said I don't see 1x ever replacing 2x as the default for road bikes.

I don't disagree with any of the above. And remember that the majority of the bicycles on the planet are single speed, and of course there are plenty of bike with 3spd or 5spd drivetrains that get their riders around just fine. Will there be some riders be happy with 1x13? Of there there will. But that's not at all the same as saying that 1x13 is "superior" than 2x drivetrains, or that there aren't good reasons that many would prefer 2x drivetrains over 1x.

[jacrider]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Really wish Campy would release a 2x, mechanical gravel/all-road groupset that could be used for touring, gravel, etc.

They did. It's Chorus 12. We have all-road or gravel bikes with 48/32 and an 11/34 cassette. I can swap to an 11/29 or 11/32 if needed. All mechanical. Great shifting. Light weight.

Recently reviewed by "Gravel Cyclist": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB8-...=GravelCyclist

[phishrabbi]

Originally Posted by prototoast

The range you describe is lacking quite a bit on the easy end compared to what most people I know ride with. Just about everyone I know rides a compact in the front with at least an 11-32 in the back.

Great, so do this.

50/11 = 4.55
34/32 = 1.06

So the Ekar 42t with the 9-42 gets you both a higher (4.67) and lower gear (1:1) than the 50/34 x 11-32

The way Campy is doing their cassettes, there are as many 1t jumps as possible on the small end of the cassette, you're much more likely to need a specific cadence in that part of the cassette than you are when climbing.

Are there tradeoffs? Yes. Should every roadie ride a 1x? No.

But Math is Math- don't argue that you can't get the range on a 1x because you can.

Many people won't mind ever so slightly larger jumps between gears, others will.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by phishrabbi

The way Campy is doing their cassettes, there are as many 1t jumps as possible on the small end of the cassette, you're much more likely to need a specific cadence in that part of the cassette than you are when climbing.

Ah yes, the Math. By pushing the idea of "as many 1t jumps as possible", Campy is hoping that people are bad at Math.

Having 1 tooth jumps sounds good, but the Math doesn't work out. That's because it isn't the the absolute value of the tooth differences between different sprockets that matters - what matters is the percent difference in teeth between different sprockets. For example, the gap between a 9 and a 10 tooth sprocket is only 1 tooth - but that's an 11% difference. That's the same as the 4 tooth difference between a 36 and a 40 tooth sprocket.

Others may be different, but I prefer equal size gaps between all the sprockets. By having many 1 tooth jumps at the small end of the cassette, Campagnolo ends up with larger jumps at the big end of the cassette. Campagnolo can't avoid that Math, either.

[bicycletricycle]

My 1x11 rigs suck on longer road sections. You end up Riding around on faster sections jumping between the First 2 gears, the jump is too big and it is annoying.

Makes me want to graph out the gearing in my favorite 2x11 and 1x11 set ups to see what is actually going on.

[bicycletricycle]

I keep trying to point this out to people! The ultra small cogs make for larger gaps and cause more friction. The introduction of a 10t on AXS doubles makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Ah yes, the Math. By pushing the idea of "as many 1t jumps as possible", Campy is hoping that people are bad at Math.

Having 1 tooth jumps sounds good, but the Math doesn't work out. That's because it isn't the the absolute value of the tooth differences between different sprockets that matters - what matters is the percent difference in teeth between different sprockets. For example, the gap between a 9 and a 10 tooth sprocket is only 1 tooth - but that's an 11% difference. That's the same as the 4 tooth difference between a 36 and a 40 tooth sprocket.

Others may be different, but I prefer equal size gaps between all the sprockets. By having many 1 tooth jumps at the small end of the cassette, Campagnolo ends up with larger jumps at the big end of the cassette. Campagnolo can't avoid that Math, either.

[jimoots]

Also worth noting that the more teeth you have on your front chainring, the smaller the jumps between teeth are cadence wise.

It's half the reason you see riders opt for big chainrings in a TT - optimal chainline is the other half.

Having a small front ring with 1x exacerbates the large jumps between gears.

[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by nickl

Agree, I had a similar experience. Campagnolo offering Ekar as 1x only is a seriously flawed strategy, especially considering how well their compact and subcompact doubles work. Don’t suggest Chorus or their other groups as alternatives, since that’s not how they’re designed or marketed.

Are you sure?

It’s not listed as a gravel group, but I recall a lot of the builds they posted on social media being on “all road” bikes. They also do not offer a standard crankset and offer a subcompact.

Regardless of how it’s listed on their site or marketed, it performs very well off-road. Most of the long term reviews that I have read were in gravel bike applications and that’s how I’ve been using it. Zero complaints so far. No, it doesn’t have a clutch but if my riding required a clutch, then the merits of 1x are probably also warranted.

Originally Posted by Dave

Chorus only lacks a clutched RD cage to be gravel worthy, but the need for a clutch depends on how rough your gravel is.

A 32/34 is under 1/1 and reasonably low.

Agreed.

[Bici-Sonora]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Really wish Campy would release a 2x, mechanical gravel/all-road groupset that could be used for touring, gravel, etc.

It’s called Chorus. But you are right—if Campy was serious about it, they’d add a 46/30 crankset.


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[Bici-Sonora]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

My 1x11 rigs suck on longer road sections. You end up Riding around on faster sections jumping between the First 2 gears, the jump is too big and it is annoying.

Makes me want to graph out the gearing in my favorite 2x11 and 1x11 set ups to see what is actually going on.

I’m with all of you: 1x is great for mountain bikes, but any distance of road riding or even gravel riding, and I’m wishing for 2x


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[thirdgenbird]

Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora

It’s called Chorusif Campy was serious about it, they’d add a 46/30 crankset

They probably could. The small ring bolts to the large ring so they could make the small BCD whatever they needed if the current one is too large for a 30t. You would just need to pair it with the matching large ring. It looks like they have plenty of headroom there.