Hey Jaybee: the 2021 NBA season has started.

[XXtwindad]

The answer is most likely an emphatic no: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/s...-than-you.html

Really fun read.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

There are no Chase regulars. They had four months of god awful basketball because everyone was hurt, then the season shut down and decamped for the summer/fall bubble.

The tech bros want to see the Death Lineup out there like it's 2015 before they hit the Caltrain back to Santa Clara. That's what got the arena built. What made the fanbase the fanbase was abandoned at Oracle for luxury box money in Mission Bay.

Father time's undefeated, great workout regimen or no. Curry's missed significant time because of his ankle as recently as 2017. Klay's coming back from a torn ACL. Draymond is clearly declining -- and his ceiling was the lowest of the group as it was. They're all over 30 now.

Those three guys won't be playing together in two years. Wiggins and Wiseman are 26 and 19, they're not going anywhere. Curry's the face of the franchise, he's staying even though his contract is up in 2022.

But we've seen the Ghost of Christmas future this year, assuming they ditch Klay. Curry has to play out of his mind, old Draymond has to show up in spurts, Wiggins becomes more consistent and Wiseman matures, and it's a .500 ballclub. If they ship out Draymond -- which we've seen in spurts this year -- the defense becomes a sieve and they fall apart.

Both Klay and Draymond are under contract through 2024. Who's more palatable to pay as a 35 year old? $43 million to Klay or $27 million to Dray? Neither seems particularly appealing, and none of that combo gets "Chase regulars" hyped.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/w...ook-continues/

[Jaybee]

Something is confusing to me. Nikola Jokic is pretty clearly the MVP. But every week there's some national chatter about "but maybe it's this other guy!" For example this week's foil is Steph Curry.

Someone explain to me how Jokic isn't the MVP this year, keeping in mind that it's a regular season award and the whole regular season matters.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Something is confusing to me. Nikola Jokic is pretty clearly the MVP. But every week there's some national chatter about "but maybe it's this other guy!" For example this week's foil is Steph Curry.

Someone explain to me how Jokic isn't the MVP this year, keeping in mind that it's a regular season award and the whole regular season matters.

Seems like most prognosticators have it down to Jokic, Embiid, and Curry. Curry and Jokic are definitely doing more with less. The Sixers have one of the best records. I think Gobert should also be in the conversation. The Jazz have the best record in the league. But when was the last time a defensive specialist won the MVP?

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Something is confusing to me. Nikola Jokic is pretty clearly the MVP. But every week there's some national chatter about "but maybe it's this other guy!" For example this week's foil is Steph Curry.

Someone explain to me how Jokic isn't the MVP this year, keeping in mind that it's a regular season award and the whole regular season matters.

Jokic is far and away the guy, and I suspect now that Murray is out if he carries the increased load you'll see the conversation swing back his direction.

It's him and Embiid in a two horse race, Curry's Super Saiyan performance this week notwithstanding.

Gobert can't credibly be in the conversation. He's not even the best player on his own team, and the real MVP in Utah is everyone buying into the system.

[Burning Pines]

Someone playing on a team with a .500 record should not get the MVP, I'm sorry. And JE has missed too much time. Unless Denver craters to like the 7th seed (unlikely with how poorly Portland is doing) Jokic should definitely get it. People just want to talk about stuff.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by Burning Pines

Someone playing on a team with a .500 record should not get the MVP, I'm sorry. And JE has missed too much time. Unless Denver craters to like the 7th seed (unlikely with how poorly Portland is doing) Jokic should definitely get it. People just want to talk about stuff.

But that's the point. The person on the team who is the most valuable player on the team or in the league of play. If you use that criteria, Steph Curry is the guy. He's the only all-star on the team that's playing like one. There's only one guy on any team who's making their team competitive and putting up MVP type numbers, that's Curry. He rolled his ankle against the Celtics and still played out the game and still put up 47 points.

Last night, he helped bring down the best in the East and put up 49 points. The dude is putting up MVP performances and numbers. Yeah, the team is .500. But they wouldn't be if he wasn't on the team. And many of the loses, they've been crazy close like the Celtics one. And he's making it that way.

[Jaybee]

And Denver without Jokic would be a playoff team? Jokic has been doing what Curry has for the last month for the entire season. MVP should neither credit a player for having crappy teammates nor penalize him for having good ones. Jokic is lifting all boats in Denver (on both sides of the court, his defensive metrics are excellent) in a way that I don't see Curry doing. The only one on the same plane from a consistent two-way performance perspective is Embiid, and as said above, he has missed something like 25% of the season already.

The reason players on 8-seeds don't get MVP is because if they were actually the most valuable, their team would be much better.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

But that's the point. The person on the team who is the most valuable player on the team or in the league of play. If you use that criteria, Steph Curry is the guy. He's the only all-star on the team that's playing like one. There's only one guy on any team who's making their team competitive and putting up MVP type numbers, that's Curry. He rolled his ankle against the Celtics and still played out the game and still put up 47 points.

Last night, he helped bring down the best in the East and put up 49 points. The dude is putting up MVP performances and numbers. Yeah, the team is .500. But they wouldn't be if he wasn't on the team. And many of the loses, they've been crazy close like the Celtics one. And he's making it that way.

It'd take fewer words to type "I haven't watched Jokic play this season."

Curry's been great, but Jokic is on another level right now. He beats Curry in every advanced metric that shows underlying value to team wins -- W/S, PER, VORP --and only lags behind Curry's counting stats in PPG. Jokic is dropping nearly 9 assists per game as a center, nearly doubling Curry's total right now.

Like Giannis last year, Jokic is having an absolutely bonkers year, and has been doing it all season long for a team winning at a .650 clip.

Only time someone on a middling club should win MVP is you have something truly historic like Russell's triple double average for the first time in nearly 40 years. Curry's on a hot streak, but it's not even the best season in his career by some measures. Jokic all the way.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Could you (or probably anyone you know) beat Scalabrine in a pick-up game? The answer is most likely an emphatic no: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/s...-than-you.html

Really fun read.

That was great, thanks for posting it. Reminds me of what Stephen Roche said when I attended his cycling camp in Majorca, something to the effect of "All you hotshots who think you might be able to hang with the pro tour peloton don't understand just how exceptional those athletes are."

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

The answer is most likely an emphatic no: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/s...-than-you.html

Really fun read.

Ha, yes, good read but I’d hope that was common knowledge. Even a run of the mill Div 1 college player would smoke a decent pick up baller. Elite athlete is a different level in pretty much any sport. A good friends father in law played basketball at Denison in the early 60’s and he would tell me how they would play competitive pick up games and he would score pretty much at will (when he was in his 40’s-early 50’s)

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

That was great, thanks for posting it. Reminds me of what Stephen Roche said when I attended his cycling camp in Majorca, something to the effect of "All you hotshots who think you might be able to hang with the pro tour peloton don't understand just how exceptional those athletes are."

I'm reminded of the video fo Wiggo during his peak showing up at the local 10'er and passing his 2 minute man. The on board from that guy makes it look like he's sitting still as Wiggo comes by.

It's a whole 'nother sport.

[Burning Pines]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

But that's the point. The person on the team who is the most valuable player on the team or in the league of play. If you use that criteria, Steph Curry is the guy. He's the only all-star on the team that's playing like one. There's only one guy on any team who's making their team competitive and putting up MVP type numbers, that's Curry. He rolled his ankle against the Celtics and still played out the game and still put up 47 points.

Last night, he helped bring down the best in the East and put up 49 points. The dude is putting up MVP performances and numbers. Yeah, the team is .500. But they wouldn't be if he wasn't on the team. And many of the loses, they've been crazy close like the Celtics one. And he's making it that way.

By this criteria I hope you supported Beal or Lillard for MVP last year

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

It'd take fewer words to type "I haven't watched Jokic play this season."

Curry's been great, but Jokic is on another level right now. He beats Curry in every advanced metric that shows underlying value to team wins -- W/S, PER, VORP --and only lags behind Curry's counting stats in PPG. Jokic is dropping nearly 9 assists per game as a center, nearly doubling Curry's total right now.

Like Giannis last year, Jokic is having an absolutely bonkers year, and has been doing it all season long for a team winning at a .650 clip.

Only time someone on a middling club should win MVP is you have something truly historic like Russell's triple double average for the first time in nearly 40 years. Curry's on a hot streak, but it's not even the best season in his career by some measures. Jokic all the way.

Are there quantifiable metrics for “watchable?” By any metric, Jokic would be in my starting five, along with Doncic and Curry. It gets a tougher after that. Kyrie? Morant? Ball? Hard to say. Maybe LeBron because he’s the King.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

It'd take fewer words to type "I haven't watched Jokic play this season."

Curry's been great, but Jokic is on another level right now. He beats Curry in every advanced metric that shows underlying value to team wins -- W/S, PER, VORP --and only lags behind Curry's counting stats in PPG. Jokic is dropping nearly 9 assists per game as a center, nearly doubling Curry's total right now.

Like Giannis last year, Jokic is having an absolutely bonkers year, and has been doing it all season long for a team winning at a .650 clip.

Only time someone on a middling club should win MVP is you have something truly historic like Russell's triple double average for the first time in nearly 40 years. Curry's on a hot streak, but it's not even the best season in his career by some measures. Jokic all the way.

I don't watch basketball other than watching the Warriors games. And I don't even watch all of them. I'm not someone who is always checking ESPN or whatever. Honestly, too busy to watch.

Originally Posted by Burning Pines

By this criteria I hope you supported Beal or Lillard for MVP last year

Answered above but, No, I didn't watch them or check their stats last year. I have League Pass for one team and don't watch otherwise. Same goes for College Football. I watch pro hockey randomly (channel surfing and I see a Rangers or BlueJackets game on). But I'm not a constant sports person not like some. I'll watch soccer when it's World Cup time but don't set an alarm by it or anything. I don't even watch racing much. If it's on and I happen onto it, then yeah, I'll keep it on. But that's about it.