#61
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I can't completely match up your addition to the analogy because we're still talking about the frame material and not other components, but I'll leave it at that. All I know is I can tell a difference between frame materials in comfort and I'm sure many others can also. Many others may not as well, and that's fine. Is that how you ride bikes? I thought we weren't supposed to use forks or wheels or any other components. |
#62
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But the image it conjured in my mind did make me chuckle.
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It's not an adventure until something goes wrong. - Yvon C. |
#63
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Clearly the rear fender is the key component. Stiff, yet flexible. Soft, yet rigid.
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It's not an adventure until something goes wrong. - Yvon C. |
#64
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You kind of do. You ride with a structure made of rigid metal (or carbon fiber - which is also sometimes used for armor) between you and the road. Which, as far as load transfer and shock absorption, is very much like a layer or armor.
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#65
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If I rode wearing a suit of armor, I'd need a COMPLETELY different kind of chamois.
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It's not an adventure until something goes wrong. - Yvon C. |
#66
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#67
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Tom Ritchey - a fork is the most critical part of the bike
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And as a frame builder, one of the most important things in the designing of a bike previous to anyone introducing carbon fiber was designing the fork in a way that when you did have an accident, the fork would bend and the frame would not. And so there's a whole science behind that and so you could straighten a steel fork. You couldn't straighten a steel frame. The frame required a lot more repair and difficulty in repairing it than a fork. A fork a replaceable or it was actually fixable. You could bend it. And the energy that it absorbed as a one-inch steering column was a unique thing. It would absorb more energy than a carbon fork. A carbon fork, all the testing standards--what people don't know, the dirty little secrets about the carbon fork--is the testing standards have changed by a factor of two. They have to be twice as stiff in the CEN testing standards because if they're not, they break. A steel fork bends. And so you have to do all kinds of other things to the frame in order to keep the frame from breaking or from bending." - Tom Ritchey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-gGIqfVB2Y&t=1984 |
#68
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This is going off topic a bit, but - To my eye, the thing that stands out the most is that it sort of looks like the fork is "pivoting" forward and back at the headset/crown, almost as if there was "hinge" there As the fork blades flex forward and back, there is very little change in the actual shape of the blades. This illustrates something that I keep saying - in most cases the majority of the flex in a fork is in the steerer, (plus a smaller bit at the crown and the tops of the legs), but that the curve in the lower part of the fork adds very little to fork flex. |
#69
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But from what I have gathered so far, the only thing separating that fellow from absolute comfort-nirvana, or as close as one can get to that transcendent state, is that his bike is not also yellow. Imagine his dismay when he reads this thread.... Last edited by Dino Suegiù; 07-13-2020 at 02:15 PM. |
#70
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Didn't watch the whole video but he shows a closeup of the Specialized CG-R seatpost that has the built in spring damper thing.
That kind of seatpost will make a bigger difference than any non-sprung seatpost or rigid diamond frame feature. Also stuff like the features in a Specialized Roubaix or a Trek with the ISOSpeed beams... those all really break the rules around these kind of frame debates. Obviously forks flex a lot. |
#71
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The biggest factor I've found for frame comfort has been the headtube diameter - even a 28.6mm steerer fork in a 1 1/2" headtube is uncomfortable. Same way that 55mm tires cannot fully account for the same large diameter headtube, despite what the marketing and personalities say. I think most modern steel bikes are terrible because they are designed to meet ISO/CEN testing and nothing else. Velo Orange is a good example of the dark path. What happened to the pass hunter is a shame. The first two iterations were nice, light and responsive bikes that had fair compliance for mass production steel. The current version is heavy and may have the stiffest fork/headtube junction ever produced on a bike meant for pavement. It's an impressive design feat. The ride is, to be charitable, not very good. |
#72
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In a bicycle, the frame is like the armor plate, in that it keeps the bike's shape under hits and blows and distributes the forces. But for the cushioning layer, the bicycle relies on the compliant components like the tires, saddle, handlebar tape, etc. In case you don't believe this, try riding a bike with solid tires, rigid steel saddle and no handlebar tape and see how comfortable it is. |
#73
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#74
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The physics behind that are rather well known and proven. Quote:
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Jeremy Clarksons bike-riding cousin Last edited by martl; 07-13-2020 at 02:48 PM. |
#75
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Some bike manufacturers are finally now giving up on the charade that standard diamond frames provide any meaningful compliance and comfort, and when compliance is desired, are now building in pivots and "spring" members to provide meaningful deflections. |
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