Carbon fix and paint

[R3awak3n]

The day before D2R2 had a chain drop on my OPEN and scratch the hell out of the pain (maybe a bit of carbon?) around the BB area. I really like this bike but it has been a terrible bike to own. Only have 1600 miles on it and it ruined my D2R2 last year, bad chain suck in the rain and just always afraid of more chain suck every time I ride it. I messaged the OPEN guys and they did say a few people with 2X have that problem, specially with ultegra groups (not surprised as its the most common 2x group on the OPEN).

I have campy Potenza on the bike, Easton Crank up front. I have tried multiple cranks, multiple cassettes, chains and eventually it does happen. They said its a problem with chainline and road group that causes it, I am not so convinced about that because I dont have that problem on my cielo which also is a simlar bike but without the drop stay. I think its the drop stay that makes this a bigger problem, chain bounces and gets in there because hey, the chain stay is super close to the chain. I guess in the end, it does not matter, I just need to get this fixed (there might not be damage to the carbon and I would ride it like this but want to get it painted because it was way too expensive and new to look like that).

The OPEN guys said the new GRX is made for bikes like this and they recommend it but I am going to go with 1x. I may just get force or save up and get force axs next year.

So I am now rambling and I am sorry. I would like recommendations of places to get this stuff done. I know appleman does it and totally trust him on it but he does not do paint. I know that some people here do NOT recommend Ruckus composites so I also don't want to do with them.

Anyone ever heard of carbon solutions? - http://jorge-vazquez-f69t.squarespace.com/paint

THey seem pretty legit. Also for people that have gotten this done, how much shouild I be looking for? Seems like repair should be in the $200-$350 area, what about touch up paint?

[pdonk]

For your chain suck issue, I'd suggest making something like the old ringle chain suck plate. They are just a piece of aluminum with cut outs for the chain rings and a bolt to hold it in place. Or maybe buy a ringle and mod it for road spacing.

For paint, velocolour does touch ups - starting at $250 CAD depending on how big and how difficult. They did my SV and you can't even see where the chip was.

[shoota]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

The day before D2R2 had a chain drop on my OPEN and scratch the hell out of the pain (maybe a bit of carbon?) around the BB area. I really like this bike but it has been a terrible bike to own. Only have 1600 miles on it and it ruined my D2R2 last year, bad chain suck in the rain and just always afraid of more chain suck every time I ride it. I messaged the OPEN guys and they did say a few people with 2X have that problem, specially with ultegra groups (not surprised as its the most common 2x group on the OPEN).

I have campy Potenza on the bike, Easton Crank up front. I have tried multiple cranks, multiple cassettes, chains and eventually it does happen. They said its a problem with chainline and road group that causes it, I am not so convinced about that because I dont have that problem on my cielo which also is a simlar bike but without the drop stay. I think its the drop stay that makes this a bigger problem, chain bounces and gets in there because hey, the chain stay is super close to the chain. I guess in the end, it does not matter, I just need to get this fixed (there might not be damage to the carbon and I would ride it like this but want to get it painted because it was way too expensive and new to look like that).

The OPEN guys said the new GRX is made for bikes like this and they recommend it but I am going to go with 1x. I may just get force or save up and get force axs next year.

So I am now rambling and I am sorry. I would like recommendations of places to get this stuff done. I know appleman does it and totally trust him on it but he does not do paint. I know that some people here do NOT recommend Ruckus composites so I also don't want to do with them.

Anyone ever heard of carbon solutions? - http://jorge-vazquez-f69t.squarespace.com/paint

THey seem pretty legit. Also for people that have gotten this done, how much shouild I be looking for? Seems like repair should be in the $200-$350 area, what about touch up paint?

Cyclocarbon does both fixes and paint but he's backlogged. Fix and paint will run you somewhere around $600 I'd guess.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

bad chain suck in the rain and just always afraid of more chain suck every time I ride it. I messaged the OPEN guys and they did say a few people with 2X have that problem, specially with ultegra groups (not surprised as its the most common 2x group on the OPEN).

I have campy Potenza on the bike, Easton Crank up front. I have tried multiple cranks, multiple cassettes, chains and eventually it does happen. They said its a problem with chainline and road group that causes it...

This doesn't answer your question because I can't. But I'm also a bit suspicious of the chainline explanation. Easton's stated chainline for the 2x EC90 crankset is 45mm. The R8000 stated chainline is 43.5mm. The GRX 810 crankset's stated chainline is 46.9mm. You'd have 2mm difference. Is that so much? There would be at least 3.5mm difference relative to a Shimano road group, or to a stock road Potenza crankset (I think Potenza should have a disc optimized crankset with +2.5mm or so chainline). (Note: this doesn't jive with reports that the GRX groups have their chainline offset +2.5mm from Shimano's road stuff!?)

Either way, I am skeptical that the chainline is the issue. Maybe a chain catcher? I just threw one K-Edge in the trash as it never really caught a dropped chain, but that one was designed during the 10s era, so a newer one might work better. Clutch RD would require moving off Campy at this point.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by weiwentg

This doesn't answer your question because I can't. But I'm also a bit suspicious of the chainline explanation. Easton's stated chainline for the 2x EC90 crankset is 45mm. The R8000 stated chainline is 43.5mm. The GRX 810 crankset's stated chainline is 46.9mm. You'd have 2mm difference. Is that so much? There would be at least 3.5mm difference relative to a Shimano road group, or to a stock road Potenza crankset (I think Potenza should have a disc optimized crankset with +2.5mm or so chainline). (Note: this doesn't jive with reports that the GRX groups have their chainline offset +2.5mm from Shimano's road stuff!?)

Either way, I am skeptical that the chainline is the issue. Maybe a chain catcher? I just threw one K-Edge in the trash as it never really caught a dropped chain, but that one was designed during the 10s era, so a newer one might work better. Clutch RD would require moving off Campy at this point.

I have a chain catcher, its not the chain that is dropping, its sucking from under the crank that is the problem :/

And yes I don't think the chain line explanation is correct but you know, they have to have a reason for why some people are having problems. I also know they are not going to be like, hey, our bad, here is a new frame but I did tell em they should be posting this information on the website because there are a lot of people on 2x and the OPEN and even if 10% of people are having problems that is too much and should be out int he world. I will now be out another $500 on an already expensive as hell frame set. Not to mention I have not been ridding this bike as much as I should/want. I bought it for events like D2R2 and this year I took my Cielo which ripped through it, no complains, not chain sucking, no nothing.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by pdonk

For your chain suck issue, I'd suggest making something like the old ringle chain suck plate. They are just a piece of aluminum with cut outs for the chain rings and a bolt to hold it in place. Or maybe buy a ringle and mod it for road spacing.

For paint, velocolour does touch ups - starting at $250 CAD depending on how big and how difficult. They did my SV and you can't even see where the chip was.

Its an idea but I rather just move to an 1X system and be done with it. I definitely like 2x more than 1x but that bike will be on gravel 90% of the time so 1x is totally fine for that. I will have 2 2x bikes so I won't be missing it as much and can ride a different bike if I am going to be on pavement too much.

Originally Posted by shoota

Cyclocarbon does both fixes and paint but he's backlogged. Fix and paint will run you somewhere around $600 I'd guess.

I will message them and see how long. I don't really need the bike for a minute so i am ok waiting. Just want to make sure they are good and people have had good experince. Its fine if they are back logged but if they tell me 2 months I want to make sure its 2 months, not 8.

[John H.]

Since I have an Open and have run Easton cranks on it- And I have also had gravel bikes where I had chain drop issues, I am going to call the Potenza drivetrain.
It is mostly rear derailleur tension that prevents chain drop.

I run an Ultegra RX on my Open- No chain drop ever. This is with a double 34/50 and 11-40 cassette.
Soon to replace with a GRX read derailleur though. New is actually rated to take up to a 42 cog.

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

The day before D2R2 had a chain drop on my OPEN and scratch the hell out of the pain (maybe a bit of carbon?) around the BB area. I really like this bike but it has been a terrible bike to own. Only have 1600 miles on it and it ruined my D2R2 last year, bad chain suck in the rain and just always afraid of more chain suck every time I ride it. I messaged the OPEN guys and they did say a few people with 2X have that problem, specially with ultegra groups (not surprised as its the most common 2x group on the OPEN).

I have campy Potenza on the bike, Easton Crank up front. I have tried multiple cranks, multiple cassettes, chains and eventually it does happen. They said its a problem with chainline and road group that causes it, I am not so convinced about that because I dont have that problem on my cielo which also is a simlar bike but without the drop stay. I think its the drop stay that makes this a bigger problem, chain bounces and gets in there because hey, the chain stay is super close to the chain. I guess in the end, it does not matter, I just need to get this fixed (there might not be damage to the carbon and I would ride it like this but want to get it painted because it was way too expensive and new to look like that).

The OPEN guys said the new GRX is made for bikes like this and they recommend it but I am going to go with 1x. I may just get force or save up and get force axs next year.

So I am now rambling and I am sorry. I would like recommendations of places to get this stuff done. I know appleman does it and totally trust him on it but he does not do paint. I know that some people here do NOT recommend Ruckus composites so I also don't want to do with them.

Anyone ever heard of carbon solutions? - http://jorge-vazquez-f69t.squarespace.com/paint

THey seem pretty legit. Also for people that have gotten this done, how much shouild I be looking for? Seems like repair should be in the $200-$350 area, what about touch up paint?

[John H.]

In terms of repair- I have used Ruckus for a few jobs. Always worked out.

Looks like Vasquez is one of the many Calfee trained repair guys. Likely good.

[John H.]

What chainrings on your Easton crank?

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

Its an idea but I rather just move to an 1X system and be done with it. I definitely like 2x more than 1x but that bike will be on gravel 90% of the time so 1x is totally fine for that. I will have 2 2x bikes so I won't be missing it as much and can ride a different bike if I am going to be on pavement too much.

I will message them and see how long. I don't really need the bike for a minute so i am ok waiting. Just want to make sure they are good and people have had good experince. Its fine if they are back logged but if they tell me 2 months I want to make sure its 2 months, not 8.

A lot to unpack from your earlier posts, but just to ramble along,,,

-The stock paint on the OPEN is notoriously soft. I've never heard of someone dropping a chain and coming out unscathed - there's always damage down to the primer if not to the clear coat above the bare carbon. That being said, when I did my removal project last year I was pleasantly surprised at how nice the carbon and clearcoat underneath was. The clearcoat has a nice satin finish and has an almost frosted glass texture, very hard. And the carbon layup underneath shows A LOT of precise planning and lapping.

-Drew at cyclocarbon has an EXCELLENT reputation and is very reasonable. His carbon fixes are great while his painting is improving. I've heard both positive and negative on his finishes, but over the past year or so the words is he's been slowly implementing more professional techniques into his workshop for painting.

-Velocolour is great, but VERY expensive. A chip repair for $250 CAD (~175 USD) plus shipping sounds about right, but the previous poster was on a steel SV vs a carbon OPEN. Totally different ball game.

-As for the chainsuck I see it more as a combo of the Potenza not being optimized for rough riding and the Easton crank having a slightly suboptimal chainline for the FD to work as advertised. 2mm at the hub isn't that big a deal, but 2mm at the FD is huge.

-Also, is your Potenza crank for the DB spacing or regular? See here for more details, but especially this:

it’s pretty obvious that if you are going from 130mm road hub spacing to the nominal 135mm hub spacing of the going 12×142 thru-axle standard and you keep your rings in the same place, the chainline relationship of cassette to chainring is no longer going to be perfectly aligned where you wanted it. Campagnolo is a stickler for precise shift performance, so just moving the cassette outboard an extra 2.5mm wasn’t acceptable to them when they had the ability to easily adapt to the new alignment.

https://bikerumor.com/2017/05/09/cam...a-11-aluminum/

-Also a clutch RD and/or narrow/wide or dropstop chainrings makes a gigantic difference in chain retention. I used regular 11s ETAP 1X for a while on my previous UP, and I always paired it with an X-Sync chainring. While the combo was louder than a clutch RD it never dropped a chain.

-If you're on gravel 90% of the time it seems like you'd want a group that's optimized for rougher roads or at least has functional elements for dealing with the elements encountered. Narrow/wide chainrings, slightly wider chainline for clearance, clutch RD. Don't think Potenza has any of those, although some of it can be implemented through other means. Wolftooth roadlink and long cage Potenza RD for the range, swapping in chainrings or a crankset that can accommodate narrow wide chainrings.

Honestly don't think it's as much to do with the frameset as the groupset WRT the dropped chains. But I could easily be wrong as OPEN tends to ignore their legitimate concerns until they come to a head.

[pdonk]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

-Velocolour is great, but VERY expensive. A chip repair for $250 CAD (~175 USD) plus shipping sounds about right, but the previous poster was on a steel SV vs a carbon OPEN. Totally different ball game.

The chip was on my carbon seat tube. I also supplied the paint directly from SV so it saved a bit of money.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by pdonk

The chip was on my carbon seat tube. I also supplied the paint directly from SV so it saved a bit of money.

Very nice, and good idea with getting the paint directly from SV.

I've contacted a few different smaller manufacturers and they've all been very accommodating WRT getting paint colors. Almost all have sent me the pantone number immediately. Seems SV went out of their way to ensure your steed is looking fresh AF.

[R3awak3n]

thanks everyone for the responses.

I will likely not go velocolour because expensive... they do great work but not necessary for this. It will be a small touch up job, should not be very hard to do.

@John H. - Yeah I could see potenza being the problem. I have easton 2x rings right now but I also have had 2 other cranks there. The praxis were the worst, the FSA were the best and the eastons in the middle. I think RX derailleur may be your savior but OPEN said they have gotten complaints from people with ULTEGRA, he actually thought I was going to be on ultegra. A lot probably did not that the RX derailleur but you might have been getting lucky or some of use been getting unlucky.


@yinzerniner - The OPEN guys have been great with me, always responsive and I hope this post does not come anti-OPEN because it is not. The frame is great. They said their geo is within specs even for road components, ect. I am hoping that the carbon is actually totally fine and does not need repair and it really is just a small paint job. Regardless I am going with 1X on this one. I never had 1X so this will be a good experiment and hopefully no more chain drop issues. I will look at cyclocarbon, I actually have heard good things about him/them.

[John H.]

Yeah- My Easton had Shimano 9000 rings. I am sure that helped.

I see that Black Magic is doing cerakote- And they do lots of Opens. I bet that would be far more durable.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

thanks everyone for the responses.

I will likely not go velocolour because expensive... they do great work but not necessary for this. It will be a small touch up job, should not be very hard to do.

@John H. - Yeah I could see potenza being the problem. I have easton 2x rings right now but I also have had 2 other cranks there. The praxis were the worst, the FSA were the best and the eastons in the middle. I think RX derailleur may be your savior but OPEN said they have gotten complaints from people with ULTEGRA, he actually thought I was going to be on ultegra. A lot probably did not that the RX derailleur but you might have been getting lucky or some of use been getting unlucky.


@yinzerniner - The OPEN guys have been great with me, always responsive and I hope this post does not come anti-OPEN because it is not. The frame is great. They said their geo is within specs even for road components, ect. I am hoping that the carbon is actually totally fine and does not need repair and it really is just a small paint job. Regardless I am going with 1X on this one. I never had 1X so this will be a good experiment and hopefully no more chain drop issues. I will look at cyclocarbon, I actually have heard good things about him/them.

A pic would help in providing some more helpful tips. Depending on the extent of your damage you could always try a DIY.

Although this is more for car paint repair, the guy who does these videos is an incredible detailer who knows his stuff. He's actually local and I've met him at CCC with his restored 964 911. Using the paint/nail polish/sanding/polishing route should work if the extent isn't too deep, and you can check the carbon integrity with the coin test beforehand just to make sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xi3xmeO6C4