Chris King R45 Freehub Body

[JeffWarner]

I am a long time user of Shimano hubs (Ultegra and Dura Ace) and looking at Chris King R45 or White Industries T11 for my next set. The White Industries T11 have a lot of good things about them, but I'm not found of the set screw + locking collar approach to set pre-load. It feels like a recipe for stripped screws and indents marring the axle.

Which leads me to the Chris King R45. The AL freehub bodies have a reputation for being "soft" and getting notched by Shimano cassettes. Assuming proper lock ring torque and a good cassette (larger cogs on a spider), what is the useful life? Does it fall into the "consumable" category or more into the "slightly notched, but file it down and never gets any worse" category?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by JeffWarner

I am a long time user of Shimano hubs (Ultegra and Dura Ace) and looking at Chris King R45 or White Industries T11 for my next set. The White Industries T11 have a lot of good things about them, but I'm not found of the set screw + locking collar approach to set pre-load. It feels like a recipe for stripped screws and indents marring the axle.

Which leads me to the Chris King R45. The AL freehub bodies have a reputation for being "soft" and getting notched by Shimano cassettes. Assuming proper lock ring torque and a good cassette (larger cogs on a spider), what is the useful life? Does it fall into the "consumable" category or more into the "slightly notched, but file it down and never gets any worse" category?

Yes, they get notched, yes, you can file them down(after you pry the cogset off) BUT DA hubs, if ya want whizbangery, are really, really nice hubs. And more drillings than just 32h(like Campag)...

[JeffWarner]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Yes, they get notched, yes, you can file them down(after you pry the cogset off) BUT DA hubs, if ya want whizbangery, are really, really nice hubs. And more drillings than just 32h(like Campag)...

I agree, the current DA are pretty nice. My main hang up is around parts supply. The current hubs are from the 9000 series and not refreshed for the latest 9100. If you believe the rumors, the next iteration is a new design ("Sylence"). There are quite a few proprietary parts (cones, axels, free hub bodies, rubber seals) that parts support will dry up on. For the amount of money DAs run, I'd prefer to buy the latest generation so I can find anything I might need for them over a 5 year life.

[kramnnim]

Originally Posted by JeffWarner

The White Industries T11 have a lot of good things about them, but I'm not found of the set screw + locking collar approach to set pre-load. It feels like a recipe for stripped screws and indents marring the axle.

Non issue.

[adrien]

Originally Posted by JeffWarner

I am a long time user of Shimano hubs (Ultegra and Dura Ace) and looking at Chris King R45 or White Industries T11 for my next set. The White Industries T11 have a lot of good things about them, but I'm not found of the set screw + locking collar approach to set pre-load. It feels like a recipe for stripped screws and indents marring the axle.

Which leads me to the Chris King R45. The AL freehub bodies have a reputation for being "soft" and getting notched by Shimano cassettes. Assuming proper lock ring torque and a good cassette (larger cogs on a spider), what is the useful life? Does it fall into the "consumable" category or more into the "slightly notched, but file it down and never gets any worse" category?

I have two sets. One has close to 30,000 miles, the other 10,000. The 30k set has been filed a couple of times, as it had Ultegra or Force cassettes for much of its life. The other has mostly been running red, and never has been filed due to the different interface red offers.

Both are still original, and not in any need of imminent replacement.

R45s are maintenance-dependent. My initial set used to have issues with the pre-load loosening on the rear, but that was easily addressed with a drop of blue locktite on the screw. Other than that, they do need to be cleaned with some frequency, but otherwise seem like they'd last a very long time.

I have T11s on another wheel set. They are, um, fine. I don't really think about them, though they have needed bearing replacement in 5,000 miles (but I think that has more to do with their being my dirt road wheels). R45s have a very big personality, make a nice mechanical buzz (if you like such things), look like jewelry, and engage very quickly.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by JeffWarner

I agree, the current DA are pretty nice. My main hang up is around parts supply. The current hubs are from the 9000 series and not refreshed for the latest 9100. If you believe the rumors, the next iteration is a new design ("Sylence"). There are quite a few proprietary parts (cones, axels, free hub bodies, rubber seals) that parts support will dry up on. For the amount of money DAs run, I'd prefer to buy the latest generation so I can find anything I might need for them over a 5 year life.

Well, shimano USA still have small hub bits for 7800/7900 series so I think 5 years is a little pessimistic.

Same for early gen CK hubs.

[ChristianWong]

Originally Posted by adrien

I have T11s on another wheel set. They are, um, fine. I don't really think about them, though they have needed bearing replacement in 5,000 miles (but I think that has more to do with their being my dirt road wheels). R45s have a very big personality, make a nice mechanical buzz (if you like such things), look like jewelry, and engage very quickly.

There are two sets of WI hubs in my household (T11s and CLDs), both with the upgraded ratchet ring giving a nice buzz and excellent engagement. My polished T11s are pretty blingy but there are definitely fewer colour options vs. the Kings.

I don't see myself going to Kings at any point in the future mostly due to complicated maintenance, expensive proprietary tools, additional cost, etc.

[AngryScientist]

the cassette bite is really a non issue for the king hubs. maybe a little deformation on the freehub, but you can still easily get cassettes off and file down the high spots, and realistically, a cassette should last 10k miles with conservative chain replacements.

the bearing pre-load system on the WI hubs is not my favorite, but again, a real-world non issue. i've got a few sets that i got used with tons of miles on them and the system still works fine for preload adjustment, etc. bearings are easy to source and easy to change as well.

consider adding to your list of good hubs the DT Swiss 240/350 series. Very durable hubs and tool free maintenance to easily lube the star ratchet. never an issue with a DT hub.

dura ace hubs - high mileage friends report 10s of thousands of literally maintenance free miles on DA hubs. i would have zero reservations about rolling them with long term reliability in mind.

if you dont mind black and 32 spokes - Record hubs are still one of the best deals on a really great hub.

lots of good options out there.

[11.4]

I've put tens of thousands of miles on both CK and DA9000 hubs. Some wheels dedicated for wet, others kept clean for dry. Neither one has ever shown that it needed the service I gave it. It was basically a waste of time. I could safely plan to ride either hub ten thousand miles, including in wet Seattle conditions, without needing to tear them apart. Both have parts that are available for repair and come from companies that still stock parts for their hubs from the 1990s. Your preference is really a philosophical one -- Spud thinks CKs are too complex a design, I happen to like the for their invincible durability and ease of overhaul. If I had to pick one hub it would probably be the 9000. They just don't go wrong. But for high end wheels it's hard to beat CKs. When Enve builds road wheels, their preferred hub for their rims is CK. And the CK has possibly the best angles for an optimal wheel build of any wheels out there. I like supporting a hub that's built in America and like CK products overall. None of these is a technical argument for superiority. They are both superb. So are White Industries. I've had a couple issues with DTs and don't like the spoke angles quite as much for a strong wheel, but they certainly are versatile and durable.

[BdaGhisallo]

If your main concern is mechanical operation and maintenance, go with DT 240s or 350s or the Shimano hubs. They are bulletproof and last forever and, with DT, the ratchet drive system is fantastic.

If you're more concerned with wheel strength and lateral stiffness, then opt for the R45s or WI T11s, though if it's aero wheels you're looking at you can use normal round 14-15 DB spokes with 240 hubs and have no issues there.

I have 240s, R45 and T11 hubbed wheels. Overall the 240s win out. I find the T11 preload adjustment very finicky. I have it sorted on one and have another that I can't get setup correctly no matter what I try. I have no issues with the 240s and maintenance on them is about 90 secs every few months to add some fresh lube to the ratchets.

[madsciencenow]

I got nothing constructive to add here except to say that I’ve tried all the options listed above except the T11s (they are on my list) and the DAs and records are the least blingy but are easily my favorites. Between the two I’d go with the DAs if I was running shim/sram w/o a red cassette. My personal experience and the miles of threads I’ve read seem to indicate that the combo of freehub body durability and hub longevity make DA 9000 hard to beat. I’ve also got a set of the 9100s laced to C40s that I love but I think it’s too early to say if they will go the distance.


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[bikinchris]

Can I also suggest Phil Wood? Besides their bullet proof heavy duty hubs, they have a Pro line of lighter weight hubs.

http://philwood.com/products/hubspgs/11speed.php

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

Can I also suggest Phil Wood? Besides their bullet proof heavy duty hubs, they have a Pro line of lighter weight hubs.

http://philwood.com/products/hubspgs/11speed.php

Their flange dimensions don't look so great - 16mm center to right is on the lower side of what's offered by other rear hubs.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

Their flange dimensions don't look so great - 16mm center to right is on the lower side of what's offered by other rear hubs.

I can assure it builds good wheels with that design. I am riding a 20 year old Phil based wheel set that has never been trued. I sold a set with my old Serotta that was 12 years old when I sold it and had never been trued.

[jtbadge]

Get the T11s and don't look back. I have a set laced to Archetypes for each for my road bike and (rim-brake) gravel/cross/allroad. Absolutely zero complaints.