Jobst stories

[Eli Bingham]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Considering he completely avoided the MTB-trend and was using almost the same vintage equipment on his last ride where he crashed in 2011, I doubt it.

If he was the same age now. Not literally the same person. But nevermind.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by nmrt

Yah! Let's all drive Model A as well.

Ok I snorted when I read this.

Well done.

[weisan]

I appreciate people with strong personality or have strong opinions. We all have our quirks.

[deluz]

I remember him from some wheel building threads scolding people on their ignorance. Looks like he had really long legs and short torso which might explain the tall frame. I am just the opposite.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

The nostalgia about Jobst is funny. It is totally rad that he inspired Tom Ritchey, yes. And he was a very smart guy. But he was also fairly abrasive on Usenet - sort of an ur-forum bad guy.

I'd describe him more along the lines of not suffering fools gladly. When he started posting on Usenet there was plenty of foolish ideas being bandied about, the kind often referred to today as "bike shop lore". For example, at the time bike shop customers were commonly being told that steel bikes get "soft" with age, that reducing spoke tension made wheels more comfortable, that road tires required tread patterns for traction, etc. He wrote the book, "The Bicycle Wheel" in response to all the gobbledygook being passed around about how wheels work and how to build reliable wheels (and yes, all the principles in the book apply to today's wheels). And yes, he wasn't shy about calling people fools if they posted bogus information as if it were the truth.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by deluz

I remember him from some wheel building threads scolding people on their ignorance. Looks like he had really long legs and short torso which might explain the tall frame. I am just the opposite.

Back then frames were taller than they are today. In those day, nearly all bikes had horizontal top tubes, and people only looked for an inch or so of standover clearance (on road bikes). Today most frames have sloping top tubes, so standover heights are much large today. Also, handlebars in days past typically had round bends and deeper drops, so stems were higher than they are today with modern ergo bend compact handlebars.

[witcombusa]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Considering he completely avoided the MTB-trend and was using almost the same vintage equipment on his last ride where he crashed in 2011, I doubt it.

That's a nice looking Ritchie frame he's got there!
Looks like it's set up as half step gearing too.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by witcombusa

That's a nice looking Ritchie frame he's got there!
Looks like it's set up as half step gearing too.

And he finally adopted indexed shifting and SPD pedals!

Tim

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I'd describe him more along the lines of not suffering fools gladly.

Here's the thing, you can be educational to people without being a d*ck.. but all too often, folks (esp in forums) think they have to beat their chest and declare "I'm right and you're an idiot if you don't agree with me!".. (and I'm sure I've done that as well BTW, on here probably)

I know nothing about how this guy interacted with folks, but as soon as someone starts to come off with a " I know way more than you and my way is the best way" attitude, most people will tune out and the message will never be heard.. and then you're talking just to hear yourself talk..

It's been a rough 40+ years of learning this, but I've figured out, for me anyway, that people's perceptions ARE their realities, regardless if we think they are correct or incorrect.. if you want to change someone's reality, you have to be kind and patient..

at least that's how I try to look at it (and sometimes I actually succeed.. )

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by fourflys

Here's the thing, you can be educational to people without being a d*ck.. but all too often, folks (esp in forums) think they have to beat their chest and declare "I'm right and you're an idiot if you don't agree with me!".. (and I'm sure I've done that as well BTW, on here probably)

I know nothing about how this guy interacted with folks, but as soon as someone starts to come off with a " I know way more than you and my way is the best way" attitude, most people will tune out and the message will never be heard.. and then you're talking just to hear yourself talk..

You're right, you never did interact with Brandt. If you asked questions, or said, "I don't know", or "this is what I've heard", he would be patient and cordial. But when someone made an erroneous assertion and boasted that it was true (especially if it had already been disproven), that's when Brandt would lower the boom. Brandt wasn't always right - but more often than not he was. If he said something, you'd be wise to strongly consider it.

Someone who simply doesn't know something isn't a fool - a fool is someone who has been shown evidence that disproves their belief but believes it anyway. That's who I was referring to when I said that Brand didn't suffer fools gladly. I'm sure Brandt knew that we wouldn't change the mind of the fool - he just wanted to make sure that the fool didn't mislead others.

[Eli Bingham]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

You're right, you never did interact with Brandt. If you asked questions, or said, "I don't know", or "this is what I've heard", he would be patient and cordial. But when someone made an erroneous assertion and boasted that it was true (especially if it had already been disproven), that's when Brandt would lower the boom. Brandt wasn't always right - but more often than not he was. If he said something, you'd be wise to strongly consider it.

Someone who simply doesn't know something isn't a fool - a fool is someone who has been shown evidence that disproves their belief but believes it anyway. That's who I was referring to when I said that Brand didn't suffer fools gladly.

People feeling the constant need to lower the boom on the Internet is basically what ruined Usenet.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

that's when Brandt would lower the boom

and that's when you're just talking to hear yourself talk (or for the sake of your sycophants) IMHO.. and if I was in earshot, I might be less likely to take it seriously when someone has a "lower the boom" attitude.

[crankles]

Originally Posted by witcombusa

That's a nice looking Ritchie frame he's got there!
Looks like it's set up as half step gearing too.

I'm pretty sure that's a Peter Johnson (RIP) Frame, one of the great bay area frame builders who almost never built frames...too busy custom machining new cam shafts for 60 yr old Ferrari 250 GTs or some such. His workshop was some a sight to behold, the campy toolbox being the least interesting thing in it.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by fourflys

and that's when you're just talking to hear yourself talk (or for the sake of your sycophants) IMHO.. and if I was in earshot, I might be less likely to take it seriously when someone has a "lower the boom" attitude.

Some people need to have the boom lowered on them. Take for example, Rush Limbough, and other spreaders of misinformation.

[clyde the point]

My wife and I ran into Jobst in the Mid Peninsula open space one Saturday, we were riding MTB and of course Jobst was clearing out a trail from deadfall on his road bike. 95 or 96. Exchanged cordialities. Worth noting in the Rad article that he never broke his Ritchey bike. I still say, that even though my body type does not lend itself to their (road) geo, the Ritchey's I have (Ascent) and had (multiple road/cross) are the best riding bikes to me.