E-bikes and a 12-year-old's death

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

It seems to me that if the bike is designed to carry more than one rider, and the weight of the bike + riders can cause the brakes to fail, then there should be a specific warning in the manual. The biggest issue I have with e-Bikes is they allow novice riders to get into situations they normally couldn't.

If the brakes chosen had a manufacturer warning about the weight of bicycle or rider and this was ignore by Rad, game over.

The RadPower RadRunner bicycle met the CPSC requirements for maximum weight limits and brakes (including having a seat for a passenger). As they were riding down a "steep" hill (the hill was described as being so steep that they couldn't have ridden up it without motor assistance), the fact that it was an e-bike may not have mattered in this case, as they might have reached speeds beyond the motor assist limit (as mentioned before, the RadRunner met the same CPSD standards and safety requirements as non-motorized bicycles).

[spoonrobot]

Whoa, they sued and settled with their daughter's friend's family (who owned the bikes) for $1,500,000.

[Blown Reek]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

It's right in the article.

Yes. And that's why I rescinded my comment.

[unterhausen]

As far as the ebike class system is concerned, adoption by the states is being lobbied for fairly heavily by the main bike advocacy organization in the U.S., People for Bikes. I have never really known what to think about that.

I think in the end, radpower will settle and we'll never know if there really were any issues with the bike at all. After all the fires, I think we will see regulation on ebike batteries, which may not stop the fires, at least not for a long time.

[9tubes]

What a tragedy.

Not to threadjack, but as an experienced cyclist those e-bikes terrify me. Especially the Rad bikes. A 70 pound bike going 25 mph on a crowded bike trail, designed for diminished control (ape hanger handlebars), designed with poor brakes, and often ridden by someone without sufficient experience. As they say, what could possibly go wrong?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by 9tubes

What a tragedy.

Not to threadjack, but as an experienced cyclist those e-bikes terrify me. Especially the Rad bikes. A 70 pound bike going 25 mph on a crowded bike trail, designed for diminished control (ape hanger handlebars), designed with poor brakes, and often ridden by someone without sufficient experience. As they say, what could possibly go wrong?

Is a 140 lb. rider on a 70 lb. bike worse than a 180 lb. rider on a 30 lb. bike (keeping in mind that they may both have the same handlebars and brakes)?
Also, the RadRunner is a class 2 e-bike, with a maximum assist speed of 20 mph (not 25 mph).

That being said, one of the purposes of e-bikes is to allow riders to go faster than they would by pedaling alone (as many e-bike supporters on this forum have admitted). So, while it is true that some fit riders can already go to fast on the bike path on a pedal only bike, e-bikes allow more people to go too fast on the bike path, which can only create more problems.

The Europeans have far more bike paths, and far more experience riding on bike paths, and they have chosen to limited e-bike assist speeds to 15.5 mph. If we had the same assist speed limit in the US, I'd be fine with e-bikes on bike paths. But the US e-bike class system has higher assist speeds, closer to moped speeds (include one class that allows throttle control), so these US class e-bikes are better suited to the road than to bike paths.

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Is a 140 lb. rider on a 70 lb. bike worse than a 180 lb. rider on a 30 lb. bike (keeping in mind that they may both have the same handlebars and brakes)?

I'd assume the latter 180lb rider would be able to handle a 30lb bike a lot better than the former.

[Tz779]

This incident really got to me. Two kids trying to have fun on a sleepover ends in tragedy.

I know this happens every day, to someone. Just really made me sad today.

[NHAero]

What's the scoop on the brakes going bad so often? I had mech disc brakes before hydros, and still have the BB7 brakes on my heaviest bike, the Big Dummy. In NH I would reach 40 mph within 1/2 of leaving my house because I lived up a hill, and I never felt underbraked. I did build that bike up with a 203mm rotor in the front, and the fork has QR, so plenty of potential force to eject the front wheel but nothing remotely like that has occurred.

As Mark McM said above, the fact the bike is heavy isn't itself an issue, given that there have been thousands of 200 lb plus MTBers riding downhill with cable discs. I don't get the repeated frequency of no brakes that is reported in the article.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by NHAero

What's the scoop on the brakes going bad so often? I had mech disc brakes before hydros, and still have the BB7 brakes on my heaviest bike, the Big Dummy. In NH I would reach 40 mph within 1/2 of leaving my house because I lived up a hill, and I never felt underbraked. I did build that bike up with a 203mm rotor in the front, and the fork has QR, so plenty of potential force to eject the front wheel but nothing remotely like that has occurred.

As Mark McM said above, the fact the bike is heavy isn't itself an issue, given that there have been thousands of 200 lb plus MTBers riding downhill with cable discs. I don't get the repeated frequency of no brakes that is reported in the article.

I'd guess improper assembly and zero inspection or maintenance. Some things look like good ideas but then aren't. Have we all not seen this?

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by HenryA

I'd guess improper assembly and zero inspection or maintenance. Some things look like good ideas but then aren't. Have we all not seen this?

But the author has had the issue on his own Radrunners, too

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by NHAero

What's the scoop on the brakes going bad so often? I had mech disc brakes before hydros, and still have the BB7 brakes on my heaviest bike, the Big Dummy. In NH I would reach 40 mph within 1/2 of leaving my house because I lived up a hill, and I never felt underbraked. I did build that bike up with a 203mm rotor in the front, and the fork has QR, so plenty of potential force to eject the front wheel but nothing remotely like that has occurred.

As Mark McM said above, the fact the bike is heavy isn't itself an issue, given that there have been thousands of 200 lb plus MTBers riding downhill with cable discs. I don't get the repeated frequency of no brakes that is reported in the article.

I'm guessing the brakes on the RadPower RadRunner were perfectly adequate for a total bicycle weight of over 200 lb - when the brake levers are squeezed by a rider with the hand strength of a 200 lb. adult. I looked up the average weight of 10 year old girls, which according to the internet is about 70 lb. The combined weight of two 10 year old girls on a RadPower RadRunner would have been well over 200 lb. The brakes might have been strong enough when operated by a full size adult, but a 10 year old girl probably doesn't have enough hand strength for good stopping.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by NHAero

But the author has had the issue on his own Radrunners, too

Yeah and his neighbor too. His neighbor was working on his brakes a lot and keeping them working. Joe Average won't do that. The brakes may not be fit for a cheap child's bike, much less something heavier.

The legal aspects are going to be fascinating for lawyers. But the illegality of use by under 16s is a big hurdle. And I know almost nothing about CA law. Also, it looks like a judgement that won't get satisfied even if they win. Heartbreaking all the way.

[peanutgallery]

Brakes designed for a bike that weighs 3 times a normal bike that generates the same power as Gianni bugno and has the steering system borrowed from a razor scooter

What can possibly go wrong

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Yeah and his neighbor too. His neighbor was working on his brakes a lot and keeping them working. Joe Average won't do that. The brakes may not be fit for a cheap child's bike, much less something heavier.

The legal aspects are going to be fascinating for lawyers. But the illegality of use by under 16s is a big hurdle. And I know almost nothing about CA law. Also, it looks like a judgement that won't get satisfied even if they win. Heartbreaking all the way.

My understanding is class 2 e bikes have no age restriction from a legal point of view. The company says in the manual that product is designed for use for people 18 years or older.

I just think discovery will show the company was actively marketing it as fun for teens to commute to school etc. I also think the VC investors will want to settle the case as long as the demands are reasonable to try to salvage the investment.