I didn't realize there were a gazillion thru axles

[oldpotatoe]

Exactly.

Or give you a very specific, slam dunk link to something that definitely works. Giving you a vague range like that is bogus.

Originally Posted by NHAero

Easy there, we'll get there! The company’s been great.

Yup, HabCycles punch far above their weight, customer service wise, than some of the WAY more expensive frame companies. In ALL areas. Some of the more boutique-y brands($$++) could learn a thing or two from the HabCycles crew.

This all sounds annoying AF

Bike design 2023..take a really simple machine and bastardize-it, proprietary-it, incompatible-it...and then sell-it.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by marciero

What would be the benefit or incentive for companies to adopt uniform TA standard(s)? What is more surprising is that there are uniform standards of any sort. Chain pitch comes to mind. AFAIK has always ever been 1/2" or whatever it is. How did that happen?

The companies that sell bikes generally benefit from standards if they make things. Because they have multiple sources of standard parts. Back when there were more consistent standards, they built frames, but nobody does that now, they just order complete bikes. The fact that the bike companies just order complete bikes from someone else probably lowers the resistance to proprietary nonsense. Trek and spesh seem to think they are big enough to drive new standards, but it doesn't always work out for them. Customers want to be able to buy 3rd party wheels, for example.

As far as the chain standard goes, Shimano tried to change to 10mm and it was rejected. They paid a group of American pros to race on 10mm though, so it was good in that sense.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Snip
Bike design 2023..take a really simple machine and bastardize-it, proprietary-it, incompatible-it...and then sell-it.

I can yell at some of the clouds with you. It seems to me that the level of hassle is related to how many players there are. For example, with only three major players in drivetrains/groupsets, each "universe" is manageable in terms of what goes with what. When it comes to frames, too many players, so we get the BB and TA proliferation of "standards". Innovation isn't always progress. Yet I'm happy to ride a bike with integrated index shifting, clipless pedals, threadless stem, disc brakes, GPS, and tubeless tires when I head out on a long ride that includes varying surfaces. I've not seen personal benefit in electronic shifting and internally routed/aero hoses, cables, and wires, but others have.

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Y
Bike design 2023..take a really simple machine and bastardize-it, proprietary-it, incompatible-it...and then sell-it.

All to drive service back to the LBS, you should be happy.

Funny story, the first Mac laptop was designed to disassembled.
without tools, you could replace any part with a most a screwdriver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macint...%20quite%20low.

[Dave]

My disc brake frames came with the proper axles. My frames all have 142 rear and 110 front spacing and 12mm diameter axles with 1.5mm thread pitch. Next time I have one out, I'll measure the thread length. I don't expect axles to wear out very quickly if I remove each one once or twice per year.

Calipers will give you thread diameter. I've had cheap thread pitch gauges in metric and English sizes forever. No need for other special tools.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by xnetter

This all sounds annoying AF

Let's not overreact it isn't that big of a deal.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by Dave

My disc brake frames came with the proper axles. My frames all have 142 rear and 110 front spacing and 12mm diameter axles with 1.5mm thread pitch. Next time I have one out, I'll measure the thread length. I don't expect axles to wear out very quickly if I remove each one once or twice per year.

Calipers will give you thread diameter. I've had cheap thread pitch gauges in metric and English sizes forever. No need for other special tools.

I know Hab uses the Shimano, which is 166mm long. Photos look as though that axle has considerably shorter thread length (but no written spec - other Shimano TAs have 9 or 10mm) than the 20mm spec Hab gave me, so I just need to confirm that the Maxle with 14mm TL and 170.5mm overall will work.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by NHAero

The https://www.mavic.com/en-us/mavic-li...gh-axle-systemMaxle I mentioned in the first post looks normal, what is obsolete?

Yeah I got my “systema” mixed up it’s the mavic speed release axle
https://www.mavic.com/en-us/mavic-li...gh-axle-system

[xnetter]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Let's not overreact it isn't that big of a deal.

Relative to what? Compared to universal 9/10mm QRs, it's an unnecessarily complicated regime that isn't even obviously so until you haplessly come up against it, as others have outlined with customer interactions.

I don't own any disc bikes but I'll be getting one eventually. Until now I assumed most TAs were the same because ... why wouldn't they be? Silly me.

KJ

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by xnetter

Relative to what? Compared to universal 9/10mm QRs, it's an unnecessarily complicated regime that isn't even obviously so until you haplessly come up against it, as others have outlined with customer interactions.

I don't own any disc bikes but I'll be getting one eventually. Until now I assumed most TAs were the same because ... why wouldn't they be? Silly me.

KJ

Would say it’s a huge inconvenience only when comparing it to the qr. In overall terms it’s not that big or common an ordeal. It’ll honestly only pop up once or twice during the ownership of a frame, and even then can be measured pretty easily. Alternatives / replacements to stock items are only getting more available.

But as another poster mentioned, maybe non uniform parts are the norm rather than one spec being standardized across all uses. I know from just trying to get a decent replacement for a car rim how confusing it can get.

[unterhausen]

I know someone that always has spares of everything. Might not be a bad idea when it comes to through axles. So he had to track down a weird size when he got a new bike. Paragon Machine works will make you whatever through axle you want if you order 25, as it turns out.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

Would say it’s a huge inconvenience only when comparing it to the qr. In overall terms it’s not that big or common an ordeal. It’ll honestly only pop up once or twice during the ownership of a frame, and even then can be measured pretty easily. Alternatives / replacements to stock items are only getting more available.

But as another poster mentioned, maybe non uniform parts are the norm rather than one spec being standardized across all uses. I know from just trying to get a decent replacement for a car rim how confusing it can get.

I'm with you. The lack of uniform TA standards is at most an inconvenience, and only if you happen to lose the TA that came with the bike (here it is postulated that all frames/forks that use TAs should come with their matching TAs).

But I will agree with others, that it is ridiculous that there are what appear to be 5 different thread pitches used for the same 12mm diameter thru axle, when only 1 or maybe 2 are required. When standards were written down for 12mm thru axle hubs/wheels, they should have included standards for thru axle threads (or at least recommendations).

[NHAero]

I got a snippet of a CAD drawing of the rear end of the Hab from them with dimensions and some explanation so I understood what I was looking for. Then I called my LBS and he rummaged around in a bin that must of had loose TAs in it and found a Salsa Deadbolt that is 167mm long, 20mm thread length, and 1.5 pitch, so just right with what Habanero told me. And with no retail package he sold it for less than whatever MSRP would have been. While I was there I also got a Jagwire hydro hose kit and some more Stans.

It's nice to finally have a good year round shop on MV!

[palincss]

Originally Posted by Turbozinke

Yeah it's like going back in time. We had a good universal method... now we have complication in incompatibility.

And the old universal method stayed with the wheel when you removed it for transport or service. You never had the option of setting it down on the ground or the side of your truck bed when you took off the wheel to load the bike into your car or truck.

Now, of course, you can arrive at the ride start with frame and wheel only to have one of those SCHEISSE! moments as you recall the image of your thru axle sitting on the ground in your driveway. (Didn't happen to me, but did happen to a friend not that long ago.)

[Jaybee]

Maybe not as idiot proof as having the QR retained, but it's not that hard to develop a habit of always rethreading the TA a few turns back into the frame or fork. I've forgotten my helmet or shoes way more (once or twice) than I've lost my TA (never).