Yamaguchi Custom Road (WIP)

[beanolol]

Oy I saw photos of this when a friend went to take a class there. It seems you've waited quite a bit. How long was it.. I'm currently still awaiting my frame from Koichi which has been it's own saga.

And did you request to get the frame sent to you raw, what was the thought process there? Love the color choice.

[ryanisinallofus]

Seatstay bridge thing is amazing.

[AR2266]

Originally Posted by beanolol

Oy I saw photos of this when a friend went to take a class there. It seems you've waited quite a bit. How long was it.. I'm currently still awaiting my frame from Koichi which has been it's own saga.

And did you request to get the frame sent to you raw, what was the thought process there? Love the color choice.

hey, thanks for the question.

I started the process somewhere around the 2nd quarter of 2021 (that was not too long ago, was it?).

As far as i know, he is being consistent in his communication behaviour from what i gathered, and given his legendary repute I was still happy to just sign-up.

The frame was built without me knowing and acknowledging its geometry. While i should trust his experience - I cannot help feeling short-changed with the head-tube seemingly being too short and I would likely end up with too many spacers.

In recent conversations, Yamaguchi did explain that he is getting on in age and was troubled by physical ailments that happens with the passing of time, that does hamper the progress of a one-man operation.

As for the intended paint - I stated at the onset that I had a very specific paint scheme in mind knowing that it could not be accomplished with his usual go-to guy based on prior (albeit limited) experience with other custom builders.

I started going through the work of the more well-known paint studios within the US and felt Black Magic could indeed do magic as shown in well documented examples online.

The current colour scheme is a big departure from what i set out to do, as it was a long wait and tastes do change.

[beanolol]

Good stuff, I appreciate the insight. A bit more on my ongoing experience with Koichi and my build here: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=287582

You may have dodged a bullet with going with your own painter. And yes, the communication with me has been so bad I've contemplated cancelling my order several times. But I'm holding out. I know he's up there in age and my goal was to get a frame before he retires. Let's see if that's still going to happen.

[AR2266]

Originally Posted by beanolol

Good stuff, I appreciate the insight. A bit more on my ongoing experience with Koichi and my build here: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=287582

You may have dodged a bullet with going with your own painter. And yes, the communication with me has been so bad I've contemplated cancelling my order several times. But I'm holding out. I know he's up there in age and my goal was to get a frame before he retires. Let's see if that's still going to happen.

i understand that perfectly mate - after a long silence of waiting- i sent a reminder on getting a status update especially on where's the geometry drawing - i was told my frameset was already built.

Did you get a chance to check if the geometry was built to your specs?
and; what is the status of your frameset now?

[rallizes]

Originally Posted by AR2266

i understand that perfectly mate - after a long silence of waiting- i sent a reminder on getting a status update especially on where's the geometry drawing - i was told my frameset was already built.

Did you get a chance to check if the geometry was built to your specs?
and; what is the status of your frameset now?

That seems a bit nuts

[AR2266]

Actually Sachs did the same - he just does his own thing and builds what he thinks is right - but that's a story for another time.

Just for discussion purposes on the built geometry:

This is the original geometry that i send to all the custom builders that i work with



This is Yamaguchi's interpretation of a speedy race-oriented type


This is another interpretation from another builder for a similar speedy road frame (not gravel, not for touring)



And another builder's

[rallizes]

"Actually Sachs did the same - he just does his own thing and builds what he thinks is right - but that's a story for another time"

Let me know when you do.

[beanolol]

Originally Posted by AR2266

i understand that perfectly mate - after a long silence of waiting- i sent a reminder on getting a status update especially on where's the geometry drawing - i was told my frameset was already built.

Did you get a chance to check if the geometry was built to your specs?
and; what is the status of your frameset now?

I did get a geo drawing ahead of the build and it was pretty spot on, so that was good.

As for the status now.. I don't really know. I returned the dented frame (with piss poor paint) I received and he is supposed to be building me a new frame. That was in Sept and that was the last I heard from them. Ordered in May '21.

[AR2266]

good luck, i hope you hear from him soon. my last query went unanswered..but at least my frame is at the painter's now.

I presume you asked for the make-up frame to be just in raw steel?
Then its time to identify the paint shop to receive it and execute to your vision.
Looking forward to your good news on its completion.

[AR2266]

Originally Posted by beanolol

Good stuff, I appreciate the insight. A bit more on my ongoing experience with Koichi and my build here: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=287582

You may have dodged a bullet with going with your own painter. And yes, the communication with me has been so bad I've contemplated cancelling my order several times. But I'm holding out. I know he's up there in age and my goal was to get a frame before he retires. Let's see if that's still going to happen.

Black Magic Paint (BMP) gave the following feedback on the decals that came from Yamaguchi which explains the peeling of the decals on your frame:

"Most of them appear to be very old and probably unusable as they have a shelf life."

BMP will be using the decals as reference for painting the logos

And here is the first draft of the paint scheme ( a slight departure from the usual on Yamaguchi bikes) - i have responded with comments for adjustments.

[exapkib]

That's going to be spectacular! My boys still call my Yamaguchi "the Purple Bike," but I'm afraid I'll have to cede that title to you once this one is painted.

Love it.

[beanolol]

Originally Posted by AR2266

Black Magic Paint (BMP) gave the following feedback on the decals that came from Yamaguchi which explains the peeling of the decals on your frame:

"Most of them appear to be very old and probably unusable as they have a shelf life."

Oh man, this makes sense. It's now worrying me for whenever I get this frame.. I think I should have gone your route. We will see!

[Gabeah]

What a fantastic build. I love to take a step away from all the carbon, albeit only vicariously.

I gave the double-wishbone a little thought and realized it may have a ride-oriented purpose. By the seat stays converging to a single member or node (more or less) it looks like it encourages lateral flexion of the rear triangle more so than separate stays would. I'm having trouble finding an analogy, but if you imagine a highly exaggerated case where the metal is PU or some very rubbery material that deforms much easier, it may be a better mental illustration. However, the inter-wishbone tube seems fairly beefy and I'm not sure how much strain it will actually allow for during hard/quick turning.

[AR2266]

Originally Posted by Gabeah

What a fantastic build. I love to take a step away from all the carbon, albeit only vicariously.

I gave the double-wishbone a little thought and realized it may have a ride-oriented purpose. By the seat stays converging to a single member or node (more or less) it looks like it encourages lateral flexion of the rear triangle more so than separate stays would. I'm having trouble finding an analogy, but if you imagine a highly exaggerated case where the metal is PU or some very rubbery material that deforms much easier, it may be a better mental illustration. However, the inter-wishbone tube seems fairly beefy and I'm not sure how much strain it will actually allow for during hard/quick turning.

hello, I am reading this as an expression of a concern on the integrity of a wishbone stay given that it is a singular member compared to the conventional double stays.

Rob English explains this very succinctly (he must get asked this alot) with his design philosophy as an FAQ of sorts - https://www.englishcycles.com/design-philosophy/

In the case of the scenario you describe as quick turning/ or doing a fish tail sweep as is common in fixies, the members that are likely under lateral strain would be the chain-stays which is already a very rigid structure with the triangulation formed with the wheelhub.

The seat stays are only dealing with vertical compressive loads and the stays only serve as a prop, which by design, a round tube is well adequate to do so.

I had the benefit of reading through Rob's explanations and having a bike with even thinner stays (and a wishbone too) than the Yamaguchi - the hallmark of an English bike, and thus did not give the Yamaguchi design much thought, aside from how interesting it looks.