purge at CyclingTips

[Clean39T]

This whole series was exceptional:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...p/id1503581934

I wish the intellectual property rights stayed with Wade and he could republish the interviews under his own name --- Taylor Swift style..

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Embarrassing. Better to have won nothing at all than whatever that "award" is supposed to be.

Lots of gnashing of teeth in this thread, not a lot of stepping up to support the creators you guys seem to love. So it goes, as it's always gone.

If James Huang leaves and goes self-funded I'll be first in line to support him with cash, and not just kind words online. "Do better" indeed.

Step up how? You say all this like there was a mechanism to self fund this and keep it rolling that we all just sat on our hands with. They did this under the banner of CT. CT paid for this content and they made a point of emphasizing that, that no sponsor dollars subsidized it which is why they could speak their views and not from a marketing sheet. The stepping up I see, and agree with, is the middle finger to outside, not sending them my money any more, and I'll follow the people.

I think the bigger point here that's going missed, and in my opinion why they got shown the door is that Nerd Alert is the polar opposite of the message that Outside and most mass market cycling media wants to send, which is to repeat whatever promotional materials a brand provides to the "reviewer". They don't want opinions, they want regurgitation. I'll bet that Nerd Alert cost Outside add revenue from brands, so they canned it and the most vocal people part of it.

Oh and thanks for putting down someone for being recognized for the work they do and their contribution to their space and community because it doesn't meet whatever your perceived standard of excellence is. How's the view from up there?

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

High performers don't get shown the door. Just because you like something doesn't mean there's a business case for it to continue.

Buy in where these people go next, or contact them yourself and fund them directly. Working for a corporation in current year within the media and content generation space is asking for zero job security and poor ownership of [your] intellectual property.

My old company, where I worked for 18 years and left 10 months ago, just let 800 people go. I know 5 people who were high performers and they were let go. No drama, no infractions, all long tenured(all over 10 years) and all with consistent high performance and results. Gone.

I agree that just because I like something doesnt mean there is a business case for it to continue. And similarly, things I dislike continue in spite of my view.
Outside's absurd NFT venture is an example of the latter.

High performers are let go all the time across all markets and industries. Your claim simply isnt backed by actual reality. It sounds like it came out of a course in theoretical business.

[Likes2ridefar]

.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Embarrassing. Better to have won nothing at all than whatever that "award" is supposed to be.

Lots of gnashing of teeth in this thread, not a lot of stepping up to support the creators you guys seem to love. So it goes, as it's always gone.

If James Huang leaves and goes self-funded I'll be first in line to support him with cash, and not just kind words online. "Do better" indeed.

Wow, way to rip on someone for being recognized.

This all happened yesterday- why are you criticizing people for not supporting the creators we seem to love? Really, what would you have expected to happen here- they were just employed as of Monday and a ton of people were supporting the creators thru CT membership. You can see this is true based on the number of people who have said 'I cancelled my CT membership' on Twitter, CT's forum, here, and other message boards.

Like really, what do you think 'we all' should have done here to further support the content creators in question?

[fa63]

I have been a paying member of the VeloClub which supports James Huang 's podcast since the beginning. In fact, he gave my business a shout-out in one of the episodes. So I have been putting my money where my mouth is; how about you?

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Embarrassing. Better to have won nothing at all than whatever that "award" is supposed to be.

Lots of gnashing of teeth in this thread, not a lot of stepping up to support the creators you guys seem to love. So it goes, as it's always gone.

If James Huang leaves and goes self-funded I'll be first in line to support him with cash, and not just kind words online. "Do better" indeed.

[dan_hudson]

Like some others here, Cyclingtips is the online outlet I paid for content (Pinkbike too I guess, via Trailforks founder subscription). Assuming the original writers don't form back up into another outlet, can someone recommend an alternative that has a similar vibe + combo of race and tech coverage? Nice photos too.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

Nerd Alert has pushed back hard on many current trends and has asked critical questions to those who have designed and market a lot of this tech during interviews.

Just pondering out load here, but I wonder how much of a factor being critical of current product trends played in decided who was layed off? A business based on advertising revenue won't be very lucrative if it is constantly criticizing the advertiser's products.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Embarrassing. Better to have won nothing at all than whatever that "award" is supposed to be.

Lots of gnashing of teeth in this thread, not a lot of stepping up to support the creators you guys seem to love. So it goes, as it's always gone.

If James Huang leaves and goes self-funded I'll be first in line to support him with cash, and not just kind words online. "Do better" indeed.

Yeah, that "award" given out by the "UN" is total crap, better to be a nameless "from the source" or "by CT" article content robot.

Only true heroes double down when verifiable facts contradict entrenched beliefs.

But back on a sincere note, basically every CT subscriber was there because of the writers/creators, not the masthead. Seems like a time for the whole CT crew to pull a Defector and create a cooperative of their own, and when they do a whole lot of the gang will follow.

And it's a fact that the earlier cuts weren't performance based but purely from a seniority/legacy cost standpoint, and these reek of the same. When you're a cycling rag and you let go of Dane Cash and Ben Delaney then it's definitely a YOU PROBLEM.

But yes, feel sorry for the new blood who were starting to find their footing. However on the latest Pod it was pretty noticeable how low the energy was. Some of it was definitely due to the lack of cycling news right now, but god bless Dave, Ronan, Kit and Johnny but they're simply not up for being the ringleaders in audio formats (at least not yet).

Can absolutely see the cuts at Outside being a direct consequence of their exposure to crypto/NFTs. Much bigger players have already fallen, and if cutting 1/8th of staff is all it took for Outside to stay liquid they got off easy.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by dan_hudson

Like some others here, Cyclingtips is the online outlet I paid for content (Pinkbike too I guess, via Trailforks founder subscription). Assuming the original writers don't form back up into another outlet, can someone recommend an alternative that has a similar vibe + combo of race and tech coverage? Nice photos too.

https://cyclingindependent.com/ and https://thecyclingpodcast.com/

And maybe google-translate some EU publications for race analysis? Or follow youtubers...and podcasters? Mitch Docker hinted at some new projects.. that could be something developing.

[72gmc]

As my cynical J school professor might have said, media will always attract people who don't understand why people watch, but still insist on running the show.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

You remind me of my old J School professor. Cantankerous and acerbic. Started off the class by saying “About two thirds of you will fail this class. And media will be much better off for it.”

Most of my classmates loathed him. Not me. I loved the dude. He was the embodiment of the hard living hard drinking ink stained wretch from the middle of last century. I got a kick out of him.

Would this have been John Bremner at the University of Kansas? Sounds exactly like him.

BBD

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Just pondering out load here, but I wonder how much of a factor being critical of current product trends played in decided who was layed off? A business based on advertising revenue won't be very lucrative if it is constantly criticizing the advertiser's products.

Perhaps this was some percent of the decision. But James heads up Nerd Alert, is equally critical as others, and he is still at CT as of now.
Though the 5 core Nerd Alert guys(including Zach here) were critical of some trends, they were also very complimentary of other current trends and efforts.
They definitely would praise where they saw good taking place.

[Heisenberg]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Online cycling media is bloated and for the most part completely useless. Trimming the fat at this juncture was probably a good thing for all involved and hopefully there will be more cuts in the future. We're drowning in quantity with zero quality, I think these are mostly joke jobs - the mcdonald's fry cook of the media world.

Anyone who works in media or content creation and thinks they have a secure future has their head buried in the sand. In the modern economy there is zero reason to hitch your wagon to a giant corporation working with a broken advertising modern funded by perverse incentives - when self-funding is more accessible than any time in history.

If the "Nerd Alert" podcast or whatever is so awesome there should be no shortage of subscribers from patreon or substack or whichever. Build a better moustrap and don't cry when the giant unfeeling corporation doesn't want to sell it for you.

Imagine thinking a podcast needs corporate funding - in 2022!

Hard to believe there were layoffs with gold like this hitting the front page
https://cyclingtips.com/2022/11/i-do...e-about-today/

While this is a fairly heartless and cruel take, I'll dignify some of the nitty gritty bits as someone who's occasionally taken part in making cycling (and other) journalism.

Substack and Patreon, while decent for individual creators and longer-form editorial pieces, are not great outlets for reportage. They feel like further exploitation and gigification of segments of the economy where labor can be continued to be paid less (and without any predictability/consistency), as well as without any labor protections. Sure, there are a few success stories, but by and large, both platforms are awash in folks doing it primarily as a sidehustle, not as professional journalists. There's no editorial oversight...which, contrary to popular belief, does matter. No travel budgets. No gear budget, if you'd like to dive into the tech side of things. It's all a recipe for subpar work that's going to have a hard time growing or getting better.

I don't disagree that the advertising model behind publication journalism is fundamentally broken (like the rest of our economy), but there are sub-driven pubs out there that (seem) to be working. Defector and The Information are two great examples. Reporter and writer-driven journalism organizations can make money and consumers will pay for subs. Anecdotally, I pay around $200 a month for various journalism subscriptions (yes, including SS and Patreon), and did for CT until the Outside takeover and first round of layoffs. I really hope to see the Outside diaspora manage to come together in a collective way, like Defector did.

Anyway, this kind of shilling for the demise of professional journalism masquerading as "Where are your bootstraps, young man?!" is a crappy take, and smells like Alden Capital agitprop, but you do you.

[lavi]

This sucks. It's totally lame, but it's the way of the world when it's corporate and the bottom line is really all the matters.

I also miss Peloton Magazine. The piece of **** Outside mag that showed up in its place was instantly recycled.

But, this is cycling, and nobody, outside of us nerds here, cares. It's not even a blip on the radar, sadly.

If I were king, all these CT cats, plus Padraig (Sorry. As much as I want to like Cycling Independent, for whatever reason, it's not nearly as good as BKW/RKP...atmo), plus Ben Delaney would make something like Red Kite Prayer AND Peloton Mag a thing again. As available as digital crap is, I still like a good old fashioned magazine to flip though, set my coffee on, and to watch my toddler attempt to shred. Not to mention "Photo Annuals"...I miss those too.