OT-ish: Seattle vs SF

[Ken Robb]

Please don't consider San Diego. We already have too many people. And the weather can be boring.

[monkeybanana86]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

Please don't consider San Diego. We already have too many people. And the weather can be boring.

LOL yeah I feel bad for Austin. They were already crowded before the Bay exodus.

[C9H13N]

I have lived in Seattle (Northgate, Greenwood/Bitterlake, now Ballard) for most of the past 13 years. Most of the things that people complain about wrt Seattle either don’t bother me or the good things about living here outweigh them.

With that said…Downtown Portland is disgusting, the piss smell, garbage, etc is worse than anywhere in Seattle and the scenery/views don’t hold a candle to Puget Sound. I would live in Tacoma before I lived in Portland.

The Eastside (Bellevue/Redmond) is a totally different world, it’s clean, modern, and quiet but it’s tech central and more expensive than most of Seattle proper, also the 405 traffic is horrible.

[monkeybanana86]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

yo. I think we've run in the sameish circles (FCC mayhaps).

My human and I are in the same financial situation as you and yours. We left an apartment in SF (Noe/Mission) last spring for a rental house in Oakland (Uptown/Pill Hill). Portland was (is) on the radar when we made the move. I haven't been to Seattle since I was a kid, but have spent a fair bit of time in Portland over the past few years. Hence, I'll offer my thoughts on the city with the roses independent of the one with the fish market.

PDX seems insanely affordable for QoL if you're childless, into nerdy crap (hi), the outdoors (also hi), walkability/bikeability (hi hi hi), good food (hi hi hi hi), and can work remotely. Local jobs seem to pay pretty poorly - just before the pandy, I was offered a higher-level role at a company based there that paid a good 60% what the same job would've in SF. It's still on our shortishlist, but we're sitting in Oakland for the moment.

Portland downsides:
-Significantly worse (winter) weather than the general Bay Area, though I'd argue SF's weather might be on par re: frigid wind and fog, especially in the Outer Richmond, and especially in the summer.
-If the sight of tents/needles/poo on sidewalks offends you, might not be for you. I've never felt unsafe in Portland, but I'm also a tall white man. Parts are pretty grungy - I'd argue bits of downtown/Chinatown PDX are more depressing than the 'loin.
-Pretty monocultural/white. But so's Seattle.
-Airport access isn't great. Gotta connect for most anything that isn't regional.

Upsides:
-Much flatter/easier to get around than SF by bike and foot.
-Cheap. Lots of nice craftsman houses in desirable neighborhoods that would be $1.5m in the SF Bay are half that there. As you know.
-Really tight, welcoming communities around (insert interest here), and a generally warmer vibe than the Bay. Methinks lack of tech helps. Population is a lot less transient. Folks seem a lot more...er, interesting than here, but that's an extremely subjective thing for me to say.
-Do you like beer?
-Way easier to get lost quickly out of town into remote spaces (relative to SF).
-Lots of great local road and MTB riding, and Hood River is an hourish outta town for great MTB. And road. And grav grav. And then there's Bend.

I don't think I could deal with Seattle's weather. The recent wet spell in SF was enough for me. For us and for now, Oakland is a huge improvement. Public safety is definitely a concern, but not enough for us to meaningfully degrade the quality of our everyday lives - it was worse in SF, tbh. Weather's better, people are nicer, there seems to be more opportunity to build community, we're still in a really walkable locale, and not having to deal with the ****show that is the GGB/Marin County schlep for outdoor access (esp during summer weekends) is really nice. Even when I lived in southern Marin, I'd avoid riding anytime past noon on the weekends.

The 'loin/Nob Hill is close to everything I love it.

[PSC]

My wife and I like going to Portland for tax-free shopping. We went a couple weeks ago and were pleasantly surprised the homelessness wasn't as bad as our other visits.

[s4life]

Move out of the city, there are nice neighborhoods all over the bay.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

Move to Ft Collins or similar smaller city. Plenty of good medical research centers around. Why move from one dumpster fire to another?

Colorado is full...and 1F degrees right now, high yesterday was 7F degrees...

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

yo. I think we've run in the sameish circles (FCC mayhaps).

My human and I are in the same financial situation as you and yours. We left an apartment in SF (Noe/Mission) last spring for a rental house in Oakland (Uptown/Pill Hill). Portland was (is) on the radar when we made the move. I haven't been to Seattle since I was a kid, but have spent a fair bit of time in Portland over the past few years. Hence, I'll offer my thoughts on the city with the roses independent of the one with the fish market.

PDX seems insanely affordable for QoL if you're childless, into nerdy crap (hi), the outdoors (also hi), walkability/bikeability (hi hi hi), good food (hi hi hi hi), and can work remotely. Local jobs seem to pay pretty poorly - just before the pandy, I was offered a higher-level role at a company based there that paid a good 60% what the same job would've in SF. It's still on our shortishlist, but we're sitting in Oakland for the moment.

Portland downsides:
-Significantly worse (winter) weather than the general Bay Area, though I'd argue SF's weather might be on par re: frigid wind and fog, especially in the Outer Richmond, and especially in the summer.
-If the sight of tents/needles/poo on sidewalks offends you, might not be for you. I've never felt unsafe in Portland, but I'm also a tall white man. Parts are pretty grungy - I'd argue bits of downtown/Chinatown PDX are more depressing than the 'loin.
-Pretty monocultural/white. But so's Seattle.
-Airport access isn't great. Gotta connect for most anything that isn't regional.

Upsides:
-Much flatter/easier to get around than SF by bike and foot.
-Cheap. Lots of nice craftsman houses in desirable neighborhoods that would be $1.5m in the SF Bay are half that there. As you know.
-Really tight, welcoming communities around (insert interest here), and a generally warmer vibe than the Bay. Methinks lack of tech helps. Population is a lot less transient. Folks seem a lot more...er, interesting than here, but that's an extremely subjective thing for me to say.
-Do you like beer?
-Way easier to get lost quickly out of town into remote spaces (relative to SF).
-Lots of great local road and MTB riding, and Hood River is an hourish outta town for great MTB. And road. And grav grav. And then there's Bend.

I don't think I could deal with Seattle's weather. The recent wet spell in SF was enough for me. For us and for now, Oakland is a huge improvement. Public safety is definitely a concern, but not enough for us to meaningfully degrade the quality of our everyday lives - it was worse in SF, tbh. Weather's better, people are nicer, there seems to be more opportunity to build community, we're still in a really walkable locale, and not having to deal with the ****show that is the GGB/Marin County schlep for outdoor access (esp during summer weekends) is really nice. Even when I lived in southern Marin, I'd avoid riding anytime past noon on the weekends.

I don't know how you qualify this. Is it a feeling or an opinion backed up by actual incidents and/or statistics? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

I, too, live in Oakland. I live blocks away from Oakland High School. Not Beverley Hills, but not the grittiest section of Oakland, either. I leave my car open at night (at least I did until someone had a party in my car and left it reeking like beer for weeks). Nothing to steal and never had any issues. I've never felt unsafe. Granted, just like the author of the quoted post, I'm a big white guy.

My partner, who is very concerned about crime, has had her car broken into several times. She's also scared off a potential burglar in the wee hours of the morning. She lives in the more affluent hills of Oakland.

We live in both real violence (mass shootings) and manufactured violence (social media and "Next Door.") It seems like every election hinges on the concerns of "public safety" (often as it pertains to suburban white women).

At a certain point, "public safety" seems to be illusory.

[accordvsick]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I don't know how you qualify this. Is it a feeling or an opinion backed up by actual incidents and/or statistics? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

I, too, live in Oakland. I live blocks away from Oakland High School. Not Beverley Hills, but not the grittiest section of Oakland, either. I leave my car open at night (at least I did until someone had a party in my car and left it reeking like beer for weeks). Nothing to steal and never had any issues. I've never felt unsafe. Granted, just like the author of the quoted post, I'm a big white guy.

My partner, who is very concerned about crime, has had her car broken into several times. She's also scared off a potential burglar in the wee hours of the morning. She lives in the more affluent hills of Oakland.

We live in both real violence (mass shootings) and manufactured violence (social media and "Next Door.") It seems like every election hinges on the concerns of "public safety" (often as it pertains to suburban white women).

At a certain point, "public safety" seems to be illusory.

Oakland High Alumn here! Like most urban cities there are pockets of desired parts and undesired parts. It's also all about your tolerance level. Oakland is definitely a cool place to live and has plenty to offer still.... disappointed the sports franchises are going or have gone down the poop and the homelessness issue seems unsolvable. I also hear the schools aren't well supported these days.

[fourflys]

so I live in Sonoma County and work on Coast Guard Island off the 880.. I'm sure there are some nice areas in Oakland and Alameda Island is just fantastic! But, I chose to live in Sonoma County when I moved here 18 months ago (partially due to family being up there, mostly due to lower cost of living, riding) and wouldn't change it for anything.. the riding is beautiful, lots of cool little towns to check out with cool vibes/food..

Also, our plan was to move to the Salem area (much more affordable than Portland) when I retire this summer from the Coast Guard, but we just aren't ready to go yet (plus I think I found a good govt job to move into).. I think we will eventually end up in the Salem/Oregon City area, but not for a few years (maybe when I retire retire..)

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Colorado is full....

I'm not planning to move there, but you'd better let me in when I make time to ski there.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by accordvsick

disappointed the sports franchises are going or have gone down the poop and the homelessness issue seems unsolvable. I also hear the schools aren't well supported these days.

When play palaces for billionaires are won via tax breaks, the bill comes due in the streets and the schools.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by C9H13N

I have lived in Seattle (Northgate, Greenwood/Bitterlake, now Ballard) for most of the past 13 years. Most of the things that people complain about wrt Seattle either don’t bother me or the good things about living here outweigh them.

With that said…Downtown Portland is disgusting, the piss smell, garbage, etc is worse than anywhere in Seattle and the scenery/views don’t hold a candle to Puget Sound. I would live in Tacoma before I lived in Portland.

The Eastside (Bellevue/Redmond) is a totally different world, it’s clean, modern, and quiet but it’s tech central and more expensive than most of Seattle proper, also the 405 traffic is horrible.

Oh come now, there are sections of Seattle every bit as bad as sections of Portland..

All else equal though, I’d choose Seattle for the views, history and culture every day of the week.

Portland has kept me mostly out of momentum and affordability - plus the riding close to town really is orders of magnitude better than what you get in/around Seattle.

There’s a good chance I’ll be back in the Puget Sound region in the next couple of years though. The pull of the water is just too strong.

[Heisenberg]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I don't know how you qualify this. Is it a feeling or an opinion backed up by actual incidents and/or statistics? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

I, too, live in Oakland. I live blocks away from Oakland High School. Not Beverley Hills, but not the grittiest section of Oakland, either. I leave my car open at night (at least I did until someone had a party in my car and left it reeking like beer for weeks). Nothing to steal and never had any issues. I've never felt unsafe. Granted, just like the author of the quoted post, I'm a big white guy.

My partner, who is very concerned about crime, has had her car broken into several times. She's also scared off a potential burglar in the wee hours of the morning. She lives in the more affluent hills of Oakland.

We live in both real violence (mass shootings) and manufactured violence (social media and "Next Door.") It seems like every election hinges on the concerns of "public safety" (often as it pertains to suburban white women).

At a certain point, "public safety" seems to be illusory.

Eh, more the occasional sounds of gunfire and stolen cars that get dumped in the neighborhood, neighbors have had cars broken into - standard Yay Area stuff. In SF we had two vehicles stolen (one was destroyed/stripped), I had my studio burglarized once.

Like I said - I don't ever feel unsafe, and it's generally just property crime. Not like OPD gonna do anything anyway. Just keep your wits about you and don't be a confrontational dumbass is kind of the rule.

[mstateglfr]

Family lives in the Seattle Metro- Used to be in Bellevue and now in Kirkland.
Having spent a lot of time out there thru the last 20 years, that part of the metro seems like most any other suburban developed metro when it comes to access and amenities. Good schools, diverse shopping, and safe neighborhoods all exist.
All that requires a cost of living that is comically high. Like just straight up goofy.

I just read thru this whole thread and have enjoyed it since its brought up areas I remember. My home was Half Moon Bay during my college years and since I didnt know anyone when I came 'home' on visits, I would just drive 150mi in any direction(but west) and explore.

Being taught coding by the guy that created the 'BIN' button for ebay is neat. I do laugh at the thought of my family moving to any generic WC metro and going from upper middle class to barely scraping by, assuming we spent the same way we currently spend.