OT-ish: Seattle vs SF

[pasadena]

...so you're saying visit the westside more?

Originally Posted by cgolvin

I have personally witnessed someone taking a crap on Pico Blvd. between Barrington and Gateway … twice!

[rwsaunders]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

I have personally witnessed someone taking a crap on Pico Blvd. between Barrington and Gateway … twice!

In 2011 when our office was in Westlake Center (downtown Seattle near Nordstrom's flagship), I came out of the elevator one morning and a young lady was just finishing her business in our lobby. She claimed she arrived early for an interview, but her sleeping bag gave her away as one of the 99%ers who were staged outside in the park as a part of Occupy Seattle. Now we are in Belltown and most people use the alleys.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by pasadena

...so you're saying visit the westside more?

I have insufficient data about the relative distribution of human feces across neighborhoods, it could just be that I've been … uh … luckier? in encountering the range of human experiences here than you have on the east side (I'm guessing, based on your user name).

But, if you're into that sort of thing, then my recommendation would be to focus your westside visits on the vicinity of the Expo Line bike path since I think that was a factor. Best of luck!

[pasadena]

ROTFL
Haven't been as lucky? as you, and I pass the frogtown encampments regularly
Maybe the westside is just more buckwild

Originally Posted by cgolvin

I have insufficient data about the relative distribution of human feces across neighborhoods, it could just be that I've been … uh … luckier? in encountering the range of human experiences here than you have on the east side (I'm guessing, based on your user name).

But, if you're into that sort of thing, then my recommendation would be to focus your westside visits on the vicinity of the Expo Line bike path since I think that was a factor. Best of luck!

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by krooj

I'll give you an anecdote - we typically do a weekend walk across town, usually along California St, snag some coffee, then head back - ends up being around 20km of walking. A few weekends ago we were passing by Grace Cathedral in Nob Hill when a Merc with a trashed front end buzzed by, blew through a light on a left. I laughed it off and said that car is definitely involved in some crime... Next thing we know, it circles back onto California, a guy hops out of the back and starts "bipping" (smash & grab) cars. We're both pretty inured to that kinda thing, so we just keep heading downtown.

After having some coffee and picking up my wedding band, we head back in roughly the same direction - about two hours after seeing that car. We're at the SW corner of Mason & California, waiting to cross the street when who pulls up, but our friends in the clapped out Merc. I happened to be wearing my Sub that day, but I otherwise dress extremely plain - think crappy Patagonia shorts and a t-shirt. They must've seen something worthwhile, because as soon as we got to the other side of the street, that car pulled a u-turn and someone hopped out of the back and started following us.

At this point, I figured I was gonna get held up or mugged and was pretty resigned to the fact. My fiancé kept her wits about her and pulled us into Huntington Park where we were amongst lots of families and the goon didn't follow. We chilled in the park, tried to reach SFPD (not a chance), then zig-zagged NW out of the area.

Bear in mind that this all happened on a Saturday, in broad daylight, in Nob Hill.

That's just one example, outside of our usual porch pirate issues.

Got it...be vigilant, be prepared...

[krooj]

Bringing this back from the dead - Portland is definitely now on our radar. We're heading back up to Seattle in Feb to check it out again, but Portland will be the next city to prospect.

Things I'm keen on about Portland:

* Less "tech" heavy
* Better public transit options
* More affordable housing - looking to purchase in the next 4 years
* Better rental options in the near term
* Healthcare industry and OHSU, so lots of job prospects for my wife

Things which are unknown:

* Homelessness & sketch - I have a hard time believing anything could be worse than SF. How's Portland vs Seattle?
* Schools
* How brutal are the winters and how hot are the summers?

I hate the idea of "dumping" on folks in a lower CoL by moving there as someone that works in "tech", but SF is not sustainable. We're a mixed-income family, where one half works in a field which pays disproportionately to the other, and I really don't see the Bay Area as a possibility unless we're both hauling tech money :/

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by krooj

Things which are unknown:

* Homelessness & sketch - I have a hard time believing anything could be worse than SF. How's Portland vs Seattle?
* Schools
* How brutal are the winters and how hot are the summers?

I hate the idea of "dumping" on folks in a lower CoL by moving there as someone that works in "tech", but SF is not sustainable. We're a mixed-income family, where one half works in a field which pays disproportionately to the other, and I really don't see the Bay Area as a possibility unless we're both hauling tech money :/

Homelessness, Sketch, and Schools are really dependent on the particular areas you pick. You can definitely find low-sketch, low-homeless, good school areas in the Portland area but you can do that in the SF area too--it just costs more in SF.

Summers in Oregon are close-to-perfect. I didn't particularly mind the winters, but they are long and grey, and they don't feel so bad in January, but when it's still cold and rainy every day in May, it starts to get harder. My wife absolutely hated living in Portland because of the winters, and she would never live there again.

[C40_guy]

I thought this was going to be a football thread.

[bigbill]

Everett and Snohomish areas can be reasonable, and by reasonable, with a little searching you can stay under $500K for a home. Snohomish has the Centennial Trail which is a rail-trail. Paine Field has Alaskan Airlines so you can avoid the trip to Seatac if they have the flights you need. I was in Everett when I retired from the Navy and I enjoyed the area; it was just far enough north to avoid a lot of the Seattle negatives but still had everything I wanted. Sound Transit can get you and yours to Seattle if that's where you'll work.

[monkeybanana86]

Since you have a car Other Avenues is a good grocery shop.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by bigbill

Everett and Snohomish areas can be reasonable, and by reasonable, with a little searching you can stay under $500K for a home. Snohomish has the Centennial Trail which is a rail-trail. Paine Field has Alaskan Airlines so you can avoid the trip to Seatac if they have the flights you need. I was in Everett when I retired from the Navy and I enjoyed the area; it was just far enough north to avoid a lot of the Seattle negatives but still had everything I wanted. Sound Transit can get you and yours to Seattle if that's where you'll work.

I would stick with Shoreline, Edmonds, Woodway, Mukilteo before heading to Everett /Marysville/Snohomish....I grew up in Mukilteo so know the area well. Everett, north can be pretty sketchy...imho. There are some nice areas but you have to know where (along the Mukilteo Blvd is nice). Everett is a Navy town, and most the towns north are Boeing bedroom communities....some folks make the commute to Seattle cuz of heaper housing up north....traffic thru Everett is the worst....

Don't discount going east of Seattle (Bellevue, Mercer Island, Kirkland, Issaquah, Snoqualmie, etc.)...newer communities, so you have to look to avoid the cul-de-sac hell, but good schools, low crime and nice roads....

[monkeybanana86]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I'm guessing he means high levels of human feces on the sidewalks. And other stuff like that.

Since Covid that part is a little better with all the street cleaning. Too bad they didn’t do this while the city was actually booming and freaked people out. Turns out guys like Nuru are the sketchy sketch.

[steveandbarb1]

Move to Ft Collins or similar smaller city. Plenty of good medical research centers around. Why move from one dumpster fire to another?

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by Faucet

Re:
Seattle’s great. The winter is rough for riding, but you find other things to do

Chess?

[Heisenberg]

Originally Posted by krooj

Bringing this back from the dead - Portland is definitely now on our radar. We're heading back up to Seattle in Feb to check it out again, but Portland will be the next city to prospect.

Things I'm keen on about Portland:

* Less "tech" heavy
* Better public transit options
* More affordable housing - looking to purchase in the next 4 years
* Better rental options in the near term
* Healthcare industry and OHSU, so lots of job prospects for my wife

Things which are unknown:

* Homelessness & sketch - I have a hard time believing anything could be worse than SF. How's Portland vs Seattle?
* Schools
* How brutal are the winters and how hot are the summers?

I hate the idea of "dumping" on folks in a lower CoL by moving there as someone that works in "tech", but SF is not sustainable. We're a mixed-income family, where one half works in a field which pays disproportionately to the other, and I really don't see the Bay Area as a possibility unless we're both hauling tech money :/

yo. I think we've run in the sameish circles (FCC mayhaps).

My human and I are in the same financial situation as you and yours. We left an apartment in SF (Noe/Mission) last spring for a rental house in Oakland (Uptown/Pill Hill). Portland was (is) on the radar when we made the move. I haven't been to Seattle since I was a kid, but have spent a fair bit of time in Portland over the past few years. Hence, I'll offer my thoughts on the city with the roses independent of the one with the fish market.

PDX seems insanely affordable for QoL if you're childless, into nerdy crap (hi), the outdoors (also hi), walkability/bikeability (hi hi hi), good food (hi hi hi hi), and can work remotely. Local jobs seem to pay pretty poorly - just before the pandy, I was offered a higher-level role at a company based there that paid a good 60% what the same job would've in SF. It's still on our shortishlist, but we're sitting in Oakland for the moment.

Portland downsides:
-Significantly worse (winter) weather than the general Bay Area, though I'd argue SF's weather might be on par re: frigid wind and fog, especially in the Outer Richmond, and especially in the summer.
-If the sight of tents/needles/poo on sidewalks offends you, might not be for you. I've never felt unsafe in Portland, but I'm also a tall white man. Parts are pretty grungy - I'd argue bits of downtown/Chinatown PDX are more depressing than the 'loin.
-Pretty monocultural/white. But so's Seattle.
-Airport access isn't great. Gotta connect for most anything that isn't regional.

Upsides:
-Much flatter/easier to get around than SF by bike and foot.
-Cheap. Lots of nice craftsman houses in desirable neighborhoods that would be $1.5m in the SF Bay are half that there. As you know.
-Really tight, welcoming communities around (insert interest here), and a generally warmer vibe than the Bay. Methinks lack of tech helps. Population is a lot less transient. Folks seem a lot more...er, interesting than here, but that's an extremely subjective thing for me to say.
-Do you like beer?
-Way easier to get lost quickly out of town into remote spaces (relative to SF).
-Lots of great local road and MTB riding, and Hood River is an hourish outta town for great MTB. And road. And grav grav. And then there's Bend.

I don't think I could deal with Seattle's weather. The recent wet spell in SF was enough for me. For us and for now, Oakland is a huge improvement. Public safety is definitely a concern, but not enough for us to meaningfully degrade the quality of our everyday lives - it was worse in SF, tbh. Weather's better, people are nicer, there seems to be more opportunity to build community, we're still in a really walkable locale, and not having to deal with the ****show that is the GGB/Marin County schlep for outdoor access (esp during summer weekends) is really nice. Even when I lived in southern Marin, I'd avoid riding anytime past noon on the weekends.