Pegoretti Aluminium ride qualities

[El Chaba]

Originally Posted by skiezo

It's been years since I had an alum roadie, cadd 3 days.
I have been thinking about a Pegoretti Aluminium or other high quality alum frame.
So I am looking for/ wondering what the ride qualities of higher end alum bikes are compared to steel and Ti both of which I own now.
A LBS has a few Carrera alum I was looking at or a Pegoretti or equivalent custom.
Let me hear your thoughts.
Brian

If the LBS to which you are referring is ERA, you are incredibly fortunate to have them as your local shop. If the aluminum Carreras in your size date back twenty years or so and are any one of a number of higher end models, I would not hesitate. Starting in the mid 1990s, Carrera was at the cutting edge of that new generation of Italian aluminum bikes. I had stopped by that shop maybe 7 years ago and there was a Carrera Hercules in the ASICS team paint scheme in my size. I didn’t need it, but thought about buying it as I knew that would be the last chance. In trend, I didn’t buy it, and I almost immediately regretted it. By the early 2000s it was impossible to sell an aluminum frame above a more budget conscious price point, and it did not allow for the more exotic tubing or craftsmanship. I still consider my Carrera Drago as the best all around bike that I have ever owned. I have steel bikes that may have a slightly better ride, but the Carrera does not give up much and is within a pound of my lightest carbon bike.

[fredd]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

yes but cannondale wants the caad to be a budget race bike so geo, tubing choice will be about that and also how they can make it for as cheap as possible. Same will not be on the peg

Yes I definitely agree that Pegs have the upper hand in that respect. At the same time, I don't see how they were skimping out too much on the CAAD10 (to me the pinnacle of CAADs) from a performance perspective. If I'm not mistaken, those frames were built with tubes as thin as was reasonable on a race bike, and from my limited research, there is very little change from switching to a different aluminum alloy (save for going for scandium but Peg doesn't do that either). So most of the cost saving I can only imagine went to attention to detail (creaky bottom bracket much, Cannondale?) and those sweet Peg paint jobs, neither of which should affect performance.

The one place where I fully believe there should be a significant difference due to cost-cutting is in the forks. I would expect a Falz to ride noticeably better that a Caad fork, and that does play an outsized role in how a bike feels, but at that point we're talking carbon rather than alu.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by fredd

Yes I definitely agree that Pegs have the upper hand in that respect. At the same time, I don't see how they were skimping out too much on the CAAD10 (to me the pinnacle of CAADs) from a performance perspective. If I'm not mistaken, those frames were built with tubes as thin as was reasonable on a race bike, and from my limited research, there is very little change from switching to a different aluminum alloy (save for going for scandium but Peg doesn't do that either). So most of the cost saving I can only imagine went to attention to detail (creaky bottom bracket much, Cannondale?) and those sweet Peg paint jobs, neither of which should affect performance.

The one place where I fully believe there should be a significant difference due to cost-cutting is in the forks. I would expect a Falz to ride noticeably better that a Caad fork, and that does play an outsized role in how a bike feels, but at that point we're talking carbon rather than alu.

I think we need someone trustworthy that has ridden both. I wish I had experience with a CAAD but I don't but my Rock Lobster was the best road bike I have ever had and I had a lot of them

[booglebug]

With a Firefly, No22, Caad 10 and a Zank in the stable, the Zank gets ridden the most. I must be crazy but I love that bike

[rain dogs]

so many things to say: (I've owned 13 alu bikes - CDales, Orbeas, Niners, Cinellis, Lemond, 7 different CAAD's amongst others).

• -I would never pay the premium charged for an alu Peg. Never. Steel? Maybe. Alu. Never.
• -CAAD's were never designed to be budget race bikes until perhaps the 12. They almost always used time-built forks that were at the time (until the 8) the best carbon forks available. Cannondale's forks were very high quality.
• -older alu was less refined, but if you're having a medical need from a bike, it's not the frame material, it's your setup or you.
• -the differences between the highest end carbon (Look) the highest end steel (Genius/Spirirt etc.) and high end Alu (CAAD's) is noticeable, but it is subtle.
• -I've ridden over 3000km in 15 days on a full carbon saddle, on a CAAD, no issues. And a whole lot of grand Tours in the late 90's early 00's were ridden o alu with no riders experiencing blood loss, only blood doping.

Don't forget, Cannondale was pumping huge dollars into Aluminum construction and development for decades. HUGE dollars. And they made very advanced frames. Talk to or read Damon Rinard. Aluminum is a great frame material. It's not steel. It's not carbon, but it's great too. But a Pegoretti in Alu? Why?

[Clean39T]

One thing I'll say.....

The welds on my Fina Estampa are superb.

Why an aluminum Pegoretti?

Why not!

My personal reasoning for having it is I don't have to think about how I treat it wrt. getting it wet or dirty - and I love the paintjob. It's going to be my "travel" bike because of the three Pegs in my garage, it's the one I'm the least likely to cry over if it's lost, stolen, or scarred in transit. Plus, Pegoretti geometry. If you like it you like it - and I like it.

My only sadness is that Lavi loves his Love so much that I probably won't ever get my grubby mitts on it.

[sokyroadie]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

One thing I'll say.....

The welds on my Fina Estampa are superb.

Why an aluminum Pegoretti?

Why not!

My personal reasoning for having it is I don't have to think about how I treat it wrt. getting it wet or dirty - and I love the paintjob. It's going to be my "travel" bike because of the three Pegs in my garage, it's the one I'm the least likely to cry over if it's lost, stolen, or scarred in transit. Plus, Pegoretti geometry. If you like it you like it - and I like it.

My only sadness is that Lavi loves his Love so much that I probably won't ever get my grubby mitts on it.

Like everything: YMMV, IMHO, why not indeed - if you like it buy it

[flying]

Originally Posted by skiezo

So I am looking for/ wondering what the ride qualities of higher end alum bikes are compared to steel and Ti both of which I own now.

I think good quality Alum comes down to tubing selection & shapes of tubing as that affects the ride
Welds of course are always better if nicely done

That aside for myself the ride difference opposed to steel, Ti or even carbon can be summed up as a sense of urgency

I mean with Alum bikes you step on the pedals & the bike reacts more so. Always felt that way to me from the first time I tried one many years ago.

[fignon's barber]

I jumped to aluminum when lugged steel was all the rage (Vitus 992) and have raced and trained on AL ever since. I don't think I owned a carbon bike until around 2008, but have always had AL in rotation. I've ridden the best from Vitus, Bianchi, Colnago, team issued CAAD's, and Cyfac. All were excellent. My Cyfac is the smoothest riding bike I've owned. Not steel. Not carbon. The guy who built it, Francis Quillon (I believe he's retired now), is said to have built 80% of the bikes lined up to start the Tour during aluminum's heyday. I would put the ride of this aginst any other AL.

[aaronffs]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

The guy who built it, Francis Quillon (I believe he's retired now), is said to have built 80% of the bikes lined up to start the Tour during aluminum's heyday.

Would love to see a source on that number, best I can find after a couple minutes googling is this article claiming 1/3rd... thought I saw a post onhere a few weeks ago saying Pegoretti built most race frames out there

(your bike looks great though!)

[dcama5]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

I jumped to aluminum when lugged steel was all the rage (Vitus 992) and have raced and trained on AL ever since. I don't think I owned a carbon bike until around 2008, but have always had AL in rotation. I've ridden the best from Vitus, Bianchi, Colnago, team issued CAAD's, and Cyfac. All were excellent. My Cyfac is the smoothest riding bike I've owned. Not steel. Not carbon. The guy who built it, Francis Quillon (I believe he's retired now), is said to have built 80% of the bikes lined up to start the Tour during aluminum's heyday. I would put the ride of this aginst any other AL.

Fignon's barber, like you, I have an aluminum bike that has superb ride characteristics - a super smooth and comfortable ride. Yours and mine are two aluminum bikes that (I am pretty sure) can match an aluminum Peg, especially since ride quality is subjective. Mine is a Zank.

By the way, I suppose from your handle, you are a Laurent Fignon fan. I read "We were young and carefree" and it was excellent.

[AngryScientist]

Count me in the aluminum fan club.

I can attest with 100% certainty that the design is much more important than the material. For example, I can ride any of these beauties all day in comfort:




However!!

Totally different design philosophy, but this bike is literally like being rigidly attached to a jackhammer on a marble floor. Could probably rattle the teeth out of your head. I've crazily ridden a century on it one day years ago, and remember never wanting to ride a bicycle ever again after that experience. Of course, this bike is not meant to be ridden on the road for long periods of time, it's designed for explosive power transfer on the track.

[dcama5]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Count me in the aluminum fan club.

I can attest with 100% certainty that the design is much more important than the material. For example, I can ride any of these beauties all day in comfort:




However!!

Totally different design philosophy, but this bike is literally like being rigidly attached to a jackhammer on a marble floor. Could probably rattle the teeth out of your head. I've crazily ridden a century on it one day years ago, and remember never wanting to ride a bicycle ever again after that experience. Of course, this bike is not meant to be ridden on the road for long periods of time, it's designed for explosive power transfer on the track.

Yes Nick, I agree. Here is another aluminum bike that I owned but sold in an attempt to pare down. It was also a super smooth and comfortable ride.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

However!!

Totally different design philosophy, but this bike is literally like being rigidly attached to a jackhammer on a marble floor. Could probably rattle the teeth out of your head. I've crazily ridden a century on it one day years ago, and remember never wanting to ride a bicycle ever again after that experience. Of course, this bike is not meant to be ridden on the road for long periods of time, it's designed for explosive power transfer on the track.

Yeah, I hear that. And why on the list of alu bikes I've owned, I didn't name the GT GTB, which was a sick bike and so much fun, but comfortable, nope.

That said, the horror stories of stiff Alu are almost always extreme hyperbole. it's the 20% the frame, 40% the tires and 100% hyperbole.

[GParkes]

OP, you mentioned a custom in your post. I would recommend you look into / speak with Nate Zukas. He seems to have perfected Alu frame construction. And reasonably priced.