Open U.P. or U.P.P.E.R. only bike?

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

At least for me, a lot of it comes down to the relative position between the two bikes. My current gravel position is within a few mm of my preferred road position, and I could get all the way there by removing a spacer underneath the stem. I'm also not incredibly sensitive to a few mm either way. If either of those things isn't true for a rider, I can see where having the two different bikes makes a big difference.

I feel like I have to start every reply with a "you do you" caveat.. So, ride what you like, I'm not here to judge.

BUT - don't you find that you want a different position for different types of riding? I generally have the same reach from saddle to bars on all of my bikes, but how I achieve that reach can vary quite a bit. On the all-road bike, it's more stack, a bit more setback, and a longer TT. On the performance road bike, it's much less stack, shorter TT, saddle a bit more forward, and everything rotating kind of down and forward. On a gravel bike, it's a longer TT, less drop, wider bars, shorter stem, and middling setback. And I want different saddles for all three, different bar tape too.

Swapping wheels, changing stems, swapping chains, different RD, different saddle, different bars -- you get to the point where you're jumping through all of these hoops to try to have a "quiver killer" and you're practically rebuilding a bike every time you want to ride different terrain -- and why? It's not like the OPEN is cheap, or that multiple wheelsets are cheap.

If someone is going to have $6K wrapped up in their bike hobby and they want to ride both road and gravel, I'd recommend two bikes.

But that's just me...

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by weisan

Good luck with your decision. I say, "go ahead and do it" -- what do you have to lose?

That looks like an awesome trip - and the perfect "gravel" experience to have on "road" bike tires - 32-35s and a road position seem splendid in that setting...

That Taylor would be my favorite bike of yours - if I didn't know about the Spectrum

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

I feel like I have to start every reply with a "you do you" caveat.. So, ride what you like, I'm not here to judge.

BUT - don't you find that you want a different position for different types of riding? I generally have the same reach from saddle to bars on all of my bikes, but how I achieve that reach can vary quite a bit. On the all-road bike, it's more stack, a bit more setback, and a longer TT. On the performance road bike, it's much less stack, shorter TT, saddle a bit more forward, and everything rotating kind of down and forward. On a gravel bike, it's a longer TT, less drop, wider bars, shorter stem, and middling setback. And I want different saddles for all three, different bar tape too.

Swapping wheels, changing stems, swapping chains, different RD, different saddle, different bars -- you get to the point where you're jumping through all of these hoops to try to have a "quiver killer" and you're practically rebuilding a bike every time you want to ride different terrain -- and why? It's not like the OPEN is cheap, or that multiple wheelsets are cheap.

If someone is going to have $6K wrapped up in their bike hobby and they want to ride both road and gravel, I'd recommend two bikes.

But that's just me...

I don't. Maybe it's my MTB background, but I find that I'm pretty happy with my current position/fit in almost all situations, and that human adaptability gets me the rest of the way there. My current life situations and choices mean I'm almost never doing a spirited group ride or even a long solo road ride. Were I doing those types of things, I might care more about the specifics of position and putting down power efficiently and the bike that allows me to get there. I'm with you on constantly changing out components. I'd rather spend my time riding - the most I'm doing is a 30 second wheel swap.

There is also for me, a sense of mental adaptability that I enjoy in having a single drop bar bike: wei-pal's post seems to touch on this. It isn't the perfect bike for all situations, but in learning to work with what you have, there is a sense of contentment. I've sent this bike down some sketchy singletrack, stuff that would be much more suited to my mid-travel 29er. I've taken it on some epic Rocky Mtn pass-hunting paved rides. It's not the perfect bike for either of those situations, but we can't always have perfect, ya know?

"You do you" is right, we're all different, all we can share is our own experience.

[dem]

I also set up my bikes pretty much identical, so I've thought of this too. Basically one bike with two sets of wheels: 700x32 slicks and 650x48 semi-knobs.

But then I start looking at Nick Crumpton's site and quickly close the window.

[tony_mm]

Originally Posted by dem

I also set up my bikes pretty much identical, so I've thought of this too. Basically one bike with two sets of wheels: 700x32 slicks and 650x48 semi-knobs.



But then I start looking at Nick Crumpton's site and quickly close the window.

So 700x32mm for roads and 650x48 for gravel?

[dem]

Originally Posted by tony_mm

So 700x32mm for roads and 650x48 for gravel?

Yup, or maybe 700x28. I find anything over 32 is too squishy on pure road for me.

(my roadie is currently a Parlee and gravel bike is a generic china CX frame)

Weight is the other big one I suppose - the Parlee is sub-15 pounds with pretty generic build up (ultegra, alloy wheels, etc)

[tony_mm]

Originally Posted by dem

Yup, or maybe 700x28. I find anything over 32 is too squishy on pure road for me.



(my roadie is currently a Parlee and gravel bike is a generic china CX frame)



Weight is the other big one I suppose - the Parlee is sub-15 pounds with pretty generic build up (ultegra, alloy wheels, etc)

Why don’t you go for 700x35 (or 700x38) on gravel? Or is this what you have on your generic china CX frame?

[R3awak3n]

+1 on the people that also make each bike setup pretty identical. I am also ok with a few mm off but usually everything is pretty similar, no matter gravel or road.

[dem]

Originally Posted by tony_mm

Why don’t you go for 700x35 (or 700x38) on gravel? Or is this what you have on your generic china CX frame?

Yup, I have 700x38 on the gravel rig.. and it's neither ideal on pavement or on my somewhat-stupid gravel riding that I do.

Either my routes are 90/10 pavement/super groomed (in which case 700x28 slicks are fine) or it is 30/70 pavement/somewhat stupid dirt.

Like my Saturday route: https://www.strava.com/activities/2453166372/

Saddle time-wise:
2 hours pavement
30 min groomed dirt
15m pavement
2h:30m marginal dirt
40 min pavement
1h:40m pretty stupid dirt
45m pavement/super groomed dirt
45m stupid dirt
45m pavement

For the record, I destroyed a tire on this ride.

[93KgBike]

I sincerely hope that one bike never becomes the one, for me.

The U.P.P.E.R. looks awesome.

Is it pricier than the Stigmata?

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

I sincerely hope that one bike never becomes the one, for me.



The U.P.P.E.R. looks awesome.



Is it pricier than the Stigmata?

Yes

Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

Yes

Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

yes, by like twice.

[82Picchio]

Check this out if you want the ultimate in versatility (I have no relation to Rondo):

https://rondobike.com/

[SpeedyChix]

Originally Posted by charliedid

I know :-) and yes in the end they are all just bikes. Speaking of weather and you being in Michigan, I was gonna take the ferry across to Ludington Saturday and ride back down to Chicago. The weather seemed too iffy and not much fun for a tour. I looked last night and the weather app said "Flurries" in Ludington?!!! Ugh

The weather this season has been cool and wet. At best it will be dry for two days though the ground is saturated. Good call on not heading to Ludington Saturday...looking very wet.

And yes just bikes. Different bikes and builds for different kinds of riding. Was thinking about down the road when room for bikes may well become less room. For now, that's not an issue but it's one of those "what if" musings. It's certainly fun to try out different frames and gear as well as terrain.

Originally Posted by weisan

Speedy pal, it seems to me that you are in an unique place of your biking evolution. You have been sifting through and getting rid of a bunch of bikes on the classifieds and riding more on bikes that "give you joy" or bring you to your happy place. I think that's good thing. I don't own an OPEN but I have gone through a period of time where I have only one bike that serves both as a road bike as well as a gravel bike, and even a touring bike.

I am not gonna lie, it was not optimal (no bike is) BUT I could live with the compromises and it was "good" enough...for me. And so I was able to stay happy and accept that arrangement for 6+ years. During that time, I was just grateful to be able to ride regularly and have a bike that takes me to many happy places...and it doesn't even have disc brakes or able to accept any tires bigger than 35mm!!!

Good luck with your decision. I say, "go ahead and do it" -- what do you have to lose?

Thanks. You've nailed it. I've been asking myself am I using it and would I miss it about a number of things. The result is some things are going and a refining of what's here.
Fewer bikes to maintain = more time to ride or work on trails. The options for bikes today are amazing and a design like the OPEN really makes me ponder why more than one drop bar bike. There's still the mountain bike : )

[toronto-rider]

I have an Open and also have a SPecialized Sworks Tarmac 2016 with Carbon wheels. I just got my Open in April, but did not touch my road bike from September to April. I was on my CX bike.
I would have no issue using just the Open with multiple wheel sets (I currently have 2 sets for the open, GravelKing 38 x 700 and 650 WTB Resolute 42) If I was just to have the Open, would have a nice set of Carbon road wheels and tires.
Unfortunately I dont have that much gravel close to me, If I lived in Colorado or some other places, I would only ride gravel, maybe occasionally road.
I have enjoyed the fast group ride on my Sworks, however I dont think I would miss it that much if I just had the Open.
The only issue with the Open is that there is no place to put a cadence sensor except on the outside of the crank. If I was only having one bike, I think I would want a Powermeter and with the Open would be limited to one or 2 choices.

As good as the Open is, my one and only bike would be a custom Ti.