Love of steel VS economy of carbon??

[robt57]

Originally Posted by fourflys

So I tend to buy used bikes.. with that, my steel bikes tend to have less room for larger tires

Originally Posted by callmeishmael

At the risk of stating the obvious, not all frames of the same material are created equal.

My TCR (2021) was verging on harsh even with Pirelli P Zero TLRs in 28s, but then it's an unapologetic race bike.

Used almost always for me. Couple new stupid good deals I have nabbed here and there. [Madone/Helix]

Especially with carbon I've learned the high end like Scott HMX and 600+ OCLV etc. These are not only lighter, but have some lively flex, as does my the elder EP Nago I got F&F from Wallymann here. That Scott Addict was # one 5 seasons, the EP would be, but covid caused drastic reduction for group rides and the EP deserves more luv than I give it.

I have a 2015 Madone I got new F&F years back for a stupid deal, Kammtail 400 OCLV [550.00 new Trek warranty]. I don't really ride it much, even with 28mm TL tires, it has zero liveliness but rides OK. But uneventful kinda deadness. The helix disc, compulsive buy on a 'Lynskey Stupid Clearance' deal, $1250.00 for disc frame free ENVE upgrade fork, headset, yada. More than I could stand to pass on.

Does it really matter, for me I conclude it does, or I'd ride that Trek more.

I do like to experience rather than read other's opinions and use too much spare cash and have too many choices. But enjoy life I say.

Re:Emonda, Not ridden one, but understand a RSL is crazy light and super lively. I am over buying Road Race geom bikes to try, else I'd have tried said Emonda or a Atheos in the quest for Look 585 level glide rolling.

But the EP is the last RR Geom bike probably I'll procure. Unless life gets back to lots of riding with ppl fast and tight perhaps..

But moral of the story for me, live and ride all you can. Life is too short to not try as many different things as is practicable.. IMO

[flying]

I have also had all forms of material but for last 6 years have settled on Aluminum

Its funny in my case (except for steel Colnago) frames weight were almost identical in my case

Colnago Master X-Light of course heaviest @1600-ish gr

Cervelo R2.5 was 1164gr

Look 585 was 1023 gr

Fuji Roubaix Elite I ride now is 1150gr with all cable liners cage screws, dropout etc

I know of course modern carbon is quite a bit lighter like a half full water bottle lighter but imho built more like a sheet of drywall that cannot take much of a hit without damage

[deluz]

I am only allowed to have only two bikes. They are a 1985 Merican, 531c tubing and a 2015 Cannondale EVO. I like them both. The 3 lb weight difference is only noticeable if I am doing a lot of climbing. I like steel enough that I ordered a new Mercian due at the end of this year,

[Clean39T]

I kinda miss having a steel bike and given the funds and space would never be without one (or two).

But now that I've tasted the sweet fruits of bespoke carbon, the ride quality and efficiency they offer, it's hard for me not to have that be my priority and take up all the room I have for bikes in my garage and life at this point.

Current thinking on my ideal bike rack, in order of priority, is:

1. Argonaut RM-3 for BWR and long-distance, rough, wet, and/or varied terrain type rides.

2. Argonaut Road for shorter, faster, climby-er rides in dry weather, built up around 15-lbs or less.

3. Open Wi.De, Otso Waheela, or similar 650b x phat cable deep gravel bike-packer and errand runner.

4. Steel all-rounder.. an Ellis or Kirk, steel fork, light and lively frame. Rim-brake with room for 32s.

5. Carbon aero disc race bike. Dogma F, etc.

The problem is, I can likely only get to the first two anytime soon.

And the kicker of it is that fourth one could really be an ideal one-bike setup for me if I didn't still have that go-fast/hard itch that pushes me to want the lighter weight and differentiation of the two-bike setup that the first two give me.

What's more, I have a sneaking suspicion that if I do get the first one, I may just be a wheelset quiver away from not needing any of the other three.

Not that I won't still find an excuse to try others - like needing a "travel" bike - or wanting to try xyz bike just for fun.

But when it comes down to what really suits my riding day to day, where I live and with what I'm most interested in - it's those first two.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Current thinking on my ideal bike rack, in order of priority, is:

1. Argonaut RM-3 for BWR and long-distance, rough, wet, and/or varied terrain type rides.

Sweet bike, but the price is a bit too bespoke for me..

[klasse]

I ride steel, carbon, and titanium road bikes all in the same year. When I have a bike dialed in nicely I will clean it up and put it on the rack so it's ready to roll when another one needs a tuneup. That's just how I roll. Steel is always my favorite, but the other stuff is nice as well.

I was kicking my buddy's butt today on my nearly 30 pound Mondonico. I reminded him that I will be taking my Time VXR out in a couple of weeks.

[M_D_S]

I have yet to ride a CF bike that provides the lovely, balanced quality that a steel bike with a matching steel fork provides.

I will take a Kirk/Sachs/DiNucci/Bishop, etc. any day over a steel/CF or all CF combo.

To the OP’s point, you can get some fantastic used CF bikes at a great price point. And the engineering is certainly there for a great riding experience. But if I had to have only one, it’s a steel frameset all the way.


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[morrisericd]

Funny - I was just thinking about this yesterday on a fast paced gravel ride. My current gravel bike is Eli's old Scarab which is a no compromise (well, a little bit of weight, it's steel!) steel race bike. It's set up with AXS and really nice carbon hoops. When I'm on that bike, I feel fast. The only time I notice the weight is when I pick it up.

I also have a carbon Argonaut as my Tuesday and Wednesday night World's bike. Ted King regularly attends the TNW's, so they are fast. I was wondering how I would fare on my Scarab with road wheels on that ride. I usually get dropped somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of the way home (almost everyone but Ted and a few college hot shots do). But - I am pretty competitive in that ride and have made it all the way home!

I'm in the queue for a Crux that would be my go fast gravel bike. But - don't I already have a go fast gravel bike? Would the Crux be any faster? I originally ordered the Crux (who knows if I'll get it this year) for cyclocross, but the more I look at it, my current 2019 Crux seems to be more of a cross bike than the current Crux. And, I'd be worried about breaking that bike. For the record, I've also had go fast titanium (Routt) and other steel (Speedvagen) gravel bikes. Fit and geometry / purpose was not perfect on those bikes. It wasn't until the Scarab which was meant for racing and fits me perfectly, that I understood that steel can be fast.

For now, I'll keep racing and riding my Scarab and my Argonaut and dream of a fast carbon gravel bike. If that bike ever turns up, I bet it's not any fast than what I have. But that's being pragmatic. We all know there's no (almost) pragmatism in buying more bikes.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by morrisericd

Funny - I was just thinking about this yesterday on a fast paced gravel ride. My current gravel bike is Eli's old Scarab

Paramo, Apuna?

I'm in the queue for a Crux that would be my go fast gravel bike. But - don't I already have a go fast gravel bike?

I just built a Boone for this. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=283047

Gravel I can find, we will see about the fast part. Me being the limiting factor. My Strong Allroad is delegated to woods and packing...

We all know there's no (almost) pragmatism in buying more bikes.

The he!! you say! Most of us know anyway...

[mhespenheide]

There are a handful of us for whom the material makes an actual difference in performance or helps us push our performance limits. If you're one of those people, you're probably on carbon. I am not one of those people right now.

If it's about the ride more than the performance, go for ... whatever you enjoy. Carbon, steel, Ti, aluminum. Try any of it, try it all. High end / bespoke, inexpensive, there's the whole gamut. It doesn't have to be bespoke steel against bargain carbon, either. There's bespoke carbon and bargain steel out there, too.

I'm working with a framebuilder on a older steel Trek-era Lemond; we've dimpled the chainstays and raised the brake bridge and he's going to build me a custom steel fork for it in the fall. Total cost is going to be well under $1000 and it would take a heck of a lot more $$$ to improve that eventual finished product for me and my riding.

Heck, I'm looking at an old steel Univega on our local Craigslist that has what should be a good geometry for me and the seller specifically states that 650b 42mm tires fit with fenders. That's kind of exactly what I might commission right now, and it's cheap as chips...

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by robt57

And a steel fork is simply the best IME.

A quality carbon fork can be pretty nice, but I do wish more steel bikes came with a steel fork... but not the beefy Surly kind.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by sparky33

A quality carbon fork can be pretty nice, but I do wish more steel bikes came with a steel fork... but not the beefy Surly kind.

But seems so much more unlikely the carbon fork won't be too stiff for the steel frame.

I haven't loved a carbon fork on a steel frame since HSC3, shows how long ago I gave up.

I still find it [non ha ha] funny once we got to 1-1/8" to beef up front end.... we got tapered... As if a straight AME 1-1/8" with stiffer steerer/rooting index wasn't brutal enough...

Wait, what? too stiff? We will sell you at added cost zertz and ISO doohickeys, expensive seatposts and more!

That all said, the Tomii CX [steel] with tapered ENVE CX fork is [seems] well balanced. How much of that is me running 40mm tires though...

[zmalwo]

One thing I want to point out is that carbon fiber is not plastic, or hydrocarbon in a broader definition. carbon fiber is pure carbon, it has the same chemical formula C as charcoal and diamond. On the other hand, plastic is made out of carbon and hydrogen atoms. there's a big distinction between the two.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by zmalwo

One thing I want to point out is that carbon fiber is not plastic, or hydrocarbon in a broader definition. carbon fiber is pure carbon, it has the same chemical formula C as charcoal and diamond. On the other hand, plastic is made out of carbon and hydrogen atoms. there's a big distinction between the two.

When people call CFRP bicycle frames "plastic", they're referring to the polymer resins, not the carbon fibers.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by HTupolev

When people call CFRP bicycle frames "plastic", they're referring to the polymer resins, not the carbon fibers.

And/or the sounds it makes perhaps...