105 Di2 vs Rival AXS

[robt57]

Originally Posted by benb

7800 is better for you?

I had to put on a 1CM shorter stem, that is how much bigger and hand filling the 7800 are VS 7700. So yes.

Having said that I spend a lot of time on the tops. Ironically during that 13 year was when I spent most time fast group riding where hand on hoods was prominent.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

I found my sram force axs brakes to be on and off braking with very little modulation with the stock pads. i like shimano more. I also could not get the pad contact close enough for my needs. It sounds like aftermarket brake pads could solve for this. I replaced them with hope rx4, which are the best hydraulic brakes I’ve used on a bike not a mtb.

The SRAM pads that came on my MTB are the worst ones I've ever tried. They didn't make noise and that's about the only thing they had going for them. Bad feel, not much power, and they wore out incredibly quickly. Changing the pads to MTX ceramic was a revelation. IIRC the stock resin pads are $24/wheel and the MTX are $34, so not a big difference in price and the MTX ones seem like they are going to last about 10x as long.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by robt57

The only thing future about that shock design is I know there will not be one in my future.

Yeah, you pay a big price IMO if you need to put over a 30mm tire which the newer ones accommodate. But no a/b comparison empirically I confess. SL4 S-Work Roubaix I have is fine machine. Mine gets little luv as I have really gone no disc for road personally.

Addressing fragile wires and routing; Superfluous from where I sit. Unless the smaller newer SD-300 wires are fragile VS SD-50. Only issues I've had [2] were end user errors on my part. Over at least 1/2 doz bikes.

Are the level/bikes in question a case of frame difference as far a FACT level goes. I've had both Fact-8 and Fact 11r Roubaix, and the lower one felt like a brick. So if you notice things like this get the one with the higher Fact spec IMO.

I guess the allure of the newer Roubaix (SL7/SL8) is the increased tire clearance.. the Sl7 clears a 34 I think and the SL8 clears a 40.. not saying I need the 40, but might be nice in the future unless I can score a too good to pass up deal on an SL7.. also the 40 can act as a smoother surface gravel bike, if desired.. both bikes are FACT 10R, same as all the bikes except the S-Works, which is 12R.. and there is zero chance of me getting an S-Works.. My current SL4 is a rim-brake as I think it was in that transition period where they offered both.. I can get a nice sized 28 on there, but probably not a 30..

I do plan to go ride both bikes this weekend hopefully..

[BRad704]

Riding both is really the best answer.

I'm an AXS fan, for the flexibility of mixing parts and the left vs right shifting. I've had Di2 on a bike before and just couldn't ever shift without thinking my way though what button I needed to press. IMO only YMMV.

If you bleed your own brakes, I will say that Shimano is as simple as the brakes on an old pickup truck... while sram is an annoying double syringe affair with alternating pressurizations and such. not "hard", but not as simple as Shimano.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by BRad704

Riding both is really the best answer.

I'm an AXS fan, for the flexibility of mixing parts and the left vs right shifting. I've had Di2 on a bike before and just couldn't ever shift without thinking my way though what button I needed to press. IMO only YMMV.

If you bleed your own brakes, I will say that Shimano is as simple as the brakes on an old pickup truck... while sram is an annoying double syringe affair with alternating pressurizations and such. not "hard", but not as simple as Shimano.

I’ve never had much issue switching from brand to brand until using 1x axs for a few years and then borrowing a di2 current gen dura ace bike for a week. I’ve never had so many incorrect shifts and never did get used to the tiny buttons. I guess I got dumber with the simple right button means go faster left button means go slower.

[robt57]

All important points too. But I can never assume here what other bikes someone has either. I've settled into 30 max for road mostly. Fav RH 32 is really a 31. A few of my fav road bikes 27 is max. I have been running GK 35 slicks on RSL Moots CX on rough and wet paved bike-ways. Starting to think 35s on a really stiff frame with 75 PSI makes for good digs.

In the case of only a few bikes, it makes sense to get one that will fit tires conducive for other than road use certainly. As long as the HTA and trail of the front end for road use does not offend. You have to decide where that line is for your own druthers.

Originally Posted by fourflys

I guess the allure of the newer Roubaix (SL7/SL8) is the increased tire clearance.. the Sl7 clears a 34 I think and the SL8 clears a 40.. not saying I need the 40, but might be nice in the future unless I can score a too good to pass up deal on an SL7.. also the 40 can act as a smoother surface gravel bike, if desired.. both bikes are FACT 10R, same as all the bikes except the S-Works, which is 12R.. and there is zero chance of me getting an S-Works.. My current SL4 is a rim-brake as I think it was in that transition period where they offered both.. I can get a nice sized 28 on there, but probably not a 30..

I do plan to go ride both bikes this weekend hopefully..

[benb]

Originally Posted by fourflys

I guess the allure of the newer Roubaix (SL7/SL8) is the increased tire clearance.. the Sl7 clears a 34 I think and the SL8 clears a 40.. not saying I need the 40, but might be nice in the future unless I can score a too good to pass up deal on an SL7.. also the 40 can act as a smoother surface gravel bike, if desired.. both bikes are FACT 10R, same as all the bikes except the S-Works, which is 12R.. and there is zero chance of me getting an S-Works.. My current SL4 is a rim-brake as I think it was in that transition period where they offered both.. I can get a nice sized 28 on there, but probably not a 30..

I feel like at some point they just decided all the "endurance road bikes" and "bad condition road bikes" needed to be gravel bikes.

40c really feels pretty out there to me when they've got all the actual "gravel" bikes in the lineup. 40c still seems like the fat end of gravel, not smooth gravel.

With the way they've hyper specialized everything it just feels odd that they're pushed "endurance" so far to gravel style setup.

[Dave]

Different pads can change the modulation, but the pad contact shouldn't be affected, unless the new brand wasn't made to the proper thickness. I have my levers set as close as possible, without touching the bars. I figured out that the SRAM contact adjustment needs to be left fully CCW, as used during bleeding. Turning the adjuster does nothing to the pad clearance. It just creates dead band where the lever moves and the pads don't.

[mattscq]

I think the complexity of setting up Di2 is overblown. You only have to do it once and all the new 12s stuff you don't even have to route the shifters - you just have the mechs going back to the battery. That said, nothing is quite as simple as just pressing the sync button until it blinks green but SRAM batteries are annoying.

I have both - a Shimano 11s 2x for road and a Sram 1x for gravel. The Shimano battery basically lasts forever and in the years and thousands of miles I've put in that bike, I've probably charged it enough times to count on my hands. The SRAM battery will just run out without much of an indication and in the past year I've had the bike, I've had a couple instances where it just won't shift. You can check the battery status with the app and I think the mech blinks red when it's low, but how often are you looking at your rear mech when you're riding?

In general though, I like Shimano's ergonomics a bit better and I think it looks better. Shifts a bit smoother and I've only had to adjust it maybe once or twice. It just works. I also like the little secret buttons on the hoods.

However, I did choose SRAM for my gravel bike. I think SRAM's ecosystem is generally more flexible and they have better 1x options. I do think Shimano's 2x system is unbeatable though and I've never used electronic Campy but everything of theirs is not cross compatible even with their own stuff (like you can't mix Ekar with road) and it's all expensive.

[tomato coupe]

...

[zmalwo]

Originally Posted by BRad704

Riding both is really the best answer.

I'm an AXS fan, for the flexibility of mixing parts and the left vs right shifting. I've had Di2 on a bike before and just couldn't ever shift without thinking my way though what button I needed to press. IMO only YMMV.

there's an easy way to circumvent that. i set up my di2 shifters as follows:

the forward buttons on each shifters controls the front derailleur and the back buttons on each shifters control the rear derailleur. the buttons correlates directly to the position of the derailleurs.

[robertbb]

Shimano 12s Di2, hands down.

Mine was my first ever electronic build. I stripped and sold the Ultegra 11 mechanical group the minute I bought the bike (a Giant Defy). My rebuild went absolutely flawlessly.

1. The brakes are better. They require less frequent bleeding. The process is easier and the mineral oil isn't anywhere near as gross as DOT. Bleeding the brakes was simple, but I do recommend using the correct 12 speed specific bleed blocks which are NOT the same as the 11 speed blocks. This makes all the difference in how they feel, and in getting a nice and tight bite point. Once set up, they just feel amazing with the newest 12 speed rotors. Like a good rim brake with pads set close to the rim.

2. The shift logic is programmable. Personally, I've set mine up to mimick SRAM but with a slight twist (noting mine is a 105 Di2 system but with Ultegra shifters):

Left shifter: Hood button, big paddle and satellite port move to EASIER REAR cog, while the smaller paddle shifts the front derailleur to the small chainring

Right shifter: Hood button, big paddle and satellite shifter move to a HARDER REAR cog, while the smaller paddle shifts the front derailleur to the big chainring

The logic here is that you have a means to go easier or harder on the cassette no matter where you are grasping: tops, hoods or drops. The small inner paddle behind the brake lever requires a very deliberate action and you have to "seek that button out" since it's semi obscured which IMO is perfect for front shifting.

Build process: Clamp on the shifters. Feed one wire through the rear drive side chainstay port, and up to the seat clamp through the seat tube. Feed second wire through the port on the seat tube and up to the seat clamp. Install battery into seatpost. Plug both wires into batter, and install seatpost. 5 minute job. Set and forget.

Since then, the bike just sings. Shifting is smooth and crisp, instantaneous. Brakes are brilliant - as good as Campy disc which was previously the benchmark.

[openwheelracing]

Running the two Di2 wires are so easy. The benefit greatly outweighs the one time setup.

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

Running the two Di2 wires are so easy. The benefit greatly outweighs the one time setup.

I think Di2 is great once set up, but it is not easy on certain bikes and after a few seasons things can and do go wrong for some people. I definitely see more Di2 issues coming into the shop I help out in compared to no real issues thus far with AXS. Namely corrosion from sweat or salty environment corroding the wires and such.

I am a pretty competent mechanic, but also a dullard when it comes to techy things, so maybe I am a little biased. I think once the Di2 is set up it does have a tiny bit better feel and function, but AXS is so easy to set up and with multiple batteries that are easy to store/carry that I wouldn't fuss with it. On the plus side both Di2 and AXS are easier to set up than EPS from what I have heard from other mechanics!

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

Running the two Di2 wires are so easy. The benefit greatly outweighs the one time setup.

Depends a lot on the frame. It's pretty easy with most modern carbon frames, it's much harder with many steel frames.

On my Stelbel frame, I think I spent at least 2 hours trying to get the wire through the chainstay. Definitely made me wish I had gone with di2.