#46
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Thanks. I suppose that's the nature of conversation, it goes places. It's just frustrating how so many threads turn into sanctimonious condemnations of some piece of bike tech or another, with 6 pages of arguments to follow. And for what purpose?
Einstein said he wasn't concerned with being right, he was concerned with knowing the truth. There are many posters here who it is clear are similarly motivated, and unfortunately just as many who seem to simply have a vendetta against clouds. |
#47
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Quote:
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#48
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Are you suggesting that your brochures constitute the truth, and you are not concerned whether or not anyone else thinks that you are right?
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#49
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That said, I think the slideshow is a great idea in that an informed consumer is a "safer" consumer. And I also suspect that the vast majority of users will never experience a problem. But my view remains that hookless is unnecessary for anyone not racing ProTour, and is of questionable benefit there, so there's no real reason to use it other than you don't have a choice if manufacturers abandon it. Sorry to derail a bit Mike, your effort is recognized. |
#50
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My two sets of all road wheels from BTLOS are hookless. At the time I couldn't seem to find hooked carbon 650B rims, and maybe they were out there and I either missed them or they were from manufacturers where they cost 1.5-2.5x as much so I didn't look at the offerings. At 40 psi max pressure on 38 and 42mm tires I have about 8,000 miles without mishap. I have hit things, once or twice pretty darn hard, again, fortunately no mishap.
It's hard to know what constitutes acceptable risk. I mostly ride alone. In the events I've ridden such as D2R2 I haven't seen people with the type of failures we now are seeing in the Pro peleton, but most folks are on much wider tires at much lower pressures.
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Bingham/B.Jackson/Unicoi/Habanero/Raleigh20/429C/BigDummy/S6 |
#51
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If you look at the table shared in post #20, you will see that the max. pressure for 35-39 mm tires on hookless rims is 400 kPa (58 psi) and for 40-44 mm tires, it is 350 kPa (51 psi). That means that the typical safety margin for wider tires on hookless is greater because most people aren't running anywhere near the max. pressure.
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#52
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And my 8 year old road bike has had 1 flat with tubes and 26c tires and I've run the front tire into the 60s and the back tire into the 70s without issue. Again a bike that has seen gravel & dirt and tons of bad NE roads. It's not like I hate tubeless, I have 20 years on tubeless on the MTB and have been extremely happy there. I've had 1 flat in 20 years on tubeless MTB, I tore the sidewall on a super weight weenie Hutchinson tire very early on. It was a substantial cut and yet Stan's actually got me back to the car with just having to keep topping the tire off. But when I have to fix flats so rarely on road/gravel it's all meh. For me the bottom line is sealant change happens more frequently for me than tubed flats, it doesn't take me that long to change sealant but it takes longer than changing a tube. That's with 1 bike with tubeless in the garage and 6 (including my wife and son's bikes) that have tubes. If I converted my road bike/gravel bike to tubeless I would have 3X as much work changing sealant and the # of flats I get would not change that much I think. My son wants to convert his MTB to tubeless but I told him not until he saves the money and can do the maintenance himself. He is on his 2nd MTB with tubes and has yet to have a flat. Last edited by benb; 03-06-2024 at 04:32 PM. |
#53
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Bingham/B.Jackson/Unicoi/Habanero/Raleigh20/429C/BigDummy/S6 |
#54
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This is pure madness
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please don't take anything I say personally, I am an idiot. |
#55
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As in: use a bead jack? Or just have strong thumbs?
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#56
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I’ll have to reread those slides because I may have missed it…but shouldn’t you include something like: if you want to fix a flat in a tubeless tire, so you can finish your ride, make sure you put a tube in it!
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#57
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This is an interesting clip from Peak Torque, looking at the manufacture of hooked vs hookless rims:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAgxTdNIOhA
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"Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." - Robert Heinlein |
#58
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I found the updated Mavic chart. IMO, the easiest way to see the ETRTO guidelines at a glance. Versus the 2yr old version, I do see they've taken 28mm tires out of the 25mm TSS rim width column.
https://technicalmanual.mavic.com/te...hemes/2_72.pdf Last edited by RoosterCogset; 03-07-2024 at 05:29 AM. |
#59
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So….After all of this discussion and debate, we have gone over much of the methodology of installing and using tubeless and hookless….and precautions that should be taken with respect to rim/tire compatibility and pressures used with various combinations… The question that remains for me is, to what end? That is, can anybody concisely describe the advantages offered by said equipment?
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#60
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It is lighter (by a few grams).
Manufacturers claim better aerodynamics, better rolling resistance, and more pinch flat resistance (the aero and rolling resistance claims in particular are dubious). It is easier (and cheaper) to manufacture. |
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