campy-12: future?

AngryScientist · #1 03-01-2019, 06:04 AM

anyone in the know or making guesses:

what's the near-term future for the campy lineup? when will chorus follow suit and go 12? what about centaur and potenza, probably stay at 11-sp for a while?

personally i have been extremely impressed with both potenza and centaur, and really appreciate the cross compatibility to run shimano 11-sp cassettes - so i am in no hurry to usher 12 sp into the stable.

oldpotatoe · #2 03-01-2019, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

anyone in the know or making guesses:

what's the near-term future for the campy lineup? when will chorus follow suit and go 12? what about centaur and potenza, probably stay at 11-sp for a while?

personally i have been extremely impressed with both potenza and centaur, and really appreciate the cross compatibility to run shimano 11-sp cassettes - so i am in no hurry to usher 12 sp into the stable.

Guesses only.
I'd say thats a good bet..SR/Record/Chorus->12s, Potenza and Centaur-11s
EPS-SR/Record and 12s..doubt Chorus will follow.
Disc options..2 SKUs, 12s and 11s..with rim brake staying.

Gotta mention..it's nice that Campag and 12s meant no new freehub body 'standard..unlike the other 2..

DfCas · #3 03-01-2019, 09:15 AM

I'm waiting to see if they bring 12-2x 12 speed steel(Chorus) cassettes to market. 12 speed offers me nothing if its a 11-x cassette because I don't like need or want an 11 tooth cog, so its a lost gear. May as well get 11 speed.

Pegoready · #4 03-01-2019, 10:19 AM

I'm all in if/when Chorus 12 goes to market.

One thing I'm afraid of is manufacturers not caring if their wheels are Campy 12 ready. Once that happens it's a dead branch of evolution.

Technically, all Campy 9/10/11 wheels should be 12 ready. This is definitely the case with Campy branded wheels. But, for example, Chris King's R45 Campy freehub body is not 12 ready and they don't have immediate plans to update it. I wonder if other manufacturers will fall into the same boat.

We're already seeing it with Campy + thru axle disc. Chris King nor DT Swiss make a proper solution.

AngryScientist · #5 03-01-2019, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pegoready

But, for example, Chris King's R45 Campy freehub body is not 12 ready .

why is that, technically speaking?

Mzilliox · #6 03-01-2019, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DfCas

I'm waiting to see if they bring 12-2x 12 speed steel(Chorus) cassettes to market. 12 speed offers me nothing if its a 11-x cassette because I don't like need or want an 11 tooth cog, so its a lost gear. May as well get 11 speed.

is a 12-30 too much to ask?

Mzilliox · #7 03-01-2019, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

why is that, technically speaking?

ive seen reports of both. i saw somebody post up an actual wheel build of campy 12 on these very same CK hubs. i think it was those san fran boys at above category who posted the wheels i saw built on these hubbs for 12s. of course it may have just been show, im not sure some of those bikes ever get ridden

huck*this · #8 03-01-2019, 10:32 AM

CK campy should be able to run a 12spd cassette with no issues. All that is needed is the 11spd CK lock ring.

I have a set of Lightweight wheels with DT 240 internal Campy FHB and my 11-32 12speed cassette bolted up just like an 11speed. No issues. Although I haven't rode it yet...

ravdg316 · #9 03-01-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

why is that, technically speaking?

I can’t wrap my brain around this. The width of 11 and 12 are identical — wouldn’t using the proprietary CK 11 cassette lock ring be enough?

Mzilliox · #10 03-01-2019, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravdg316

I can’t wrap my brain around this. The width of 11 and 12 are identical — wouldn’t using the proprietary CK 11 cassette lock ring be enough?

again, it depends who you ask if it works or not, ive heard both. id try it if i had the wheels on hand... but i wouldnt build a new set around the hubs unless i knew for certain...

Pegoready · #11 03-01-2019, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravdg316

I can’t wrap my brain around this. The width of 11 and 12 are identical — wouldn’t using the proprietary CK 11 cassette lock ring be enough?

Call Chris King and ask them. They’ll say no. It might not be the case on certain builds, certain lacing patterns and spokes, but they will say no for now.

Mark McM · #12 03-01-2019, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravdg316

I can’t wrap my brain around this. The width of 11 and 12 are identical — wouldn’t using the proprietary CK 11 cassette lock ring be enough?

While the width of Campagnolo freehub bodies has not changed since 9spd was introduced, cassettes have gotten wider since then: 10spd cassettes are wider than 9spd, 11spd cassettes are wider than 10spd, so it is likely that 12spd cassettes are wider than 11spd.

Campagnolo fits wider cassettes on the same freehub body by overhanging the biggest sprocket inboard, past the shoulder of the freehub (i.e., the biggest sprocket is closer to the spokes). Depending on the design of the hubshell and the flange placement, there might not be enough room for a wider cassette if the big sprocket is overhung further inboard. The biggest sprocket might rub against the hubshell (or maybe even the spokes), or the spokes might interfere with the derailleur cage in the biggest sprocket. These interference issues have already happened with several models of hubs from various manufacturers (including some of Campagnolo's own hubs on some of their pre-buit wheels).

Lanternrouge · #13 03-01-2019, 01:45 PM

The word on the street (second hand) is that Chorus 12 is coming out in May. Also, for those that question Campy's future as a company, I've also heard that they go out of stock on numerous items because they sell out everything they make. I have not seen pictures, etc. I also have not heard anything about Chorus 12 EPS or even when Record/SR 12 EPS will be available for purchase.

FNG · #14 03-01-2019, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanternrouge

I also have not heard anything about Chorus 12 EPS or even when Record/SR 12 EPS will be available for purchase.

.

Ralph · #15 03-01-2019, 05:04 PM

Like many of you....I don't have much use for small cogs. I'm old, and it's relatively flat around here. My group rarely exceeds 25 MPH in a pack, maybe 28 in a sprint. And the old guys I ride with haven't slowed down a whole lot. Takes a good tail wind on a slight down hill to go faster than that. So cogs starting with 13 more than enough. My favorite cassette....period....is a 10's 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26 with a 34-50 or 39-52. I can pedal that (sometimes) to almost 30 MPH. Even on a mountain trip to NC,,,,get to top of hill....then coast.

The bike I currently ride the most has a 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23-26 Centaur loose cog cassette and 39-52. It's great for my use. Combination of a junior 14-23 cassette and a worn out (small cogs anyway) 13-26. One of the big topics on here is how to set up a crank with very small rings for these little fast wearing cogscogs. How to make FD work, etc. We seem to get a post about that almost every day. So others seem to be in same situation.

It's nice to see all these 11 and 12 speed groups and cassettes for you super strong riders, or those who live in mountains.....but I don't see many riders who need a 11 tooth cog. Maybe a 12 with a 50 chainring. Anyway...I know there are advances made. But this old rider doesn't have much use for the new groups. And I'm willing to buy anything that's really an advancement for my use. Wonder how many feel the same...and will this slow sales? At some point....they are just making parts for racers. And...how big is that market?