Use Cases for 700c 48MM tires

[robt57]

>I agree with Alistair assertions rolling myself.

I ran some 40 TL Re-fuse for a few seasons. Once off I did not get more/similar myself. But did find the float on the 40 TL slicks made up for lack of tread on soft surfaces, way more than expected.

I have some 30mm G-One Tubs incoming, wonder how they will wind up fitting into to similar in-between equations/conversations, dot VS slick wise minimally, not to hyjack...

I did a gravel ride with a friend who is no where near as strong a rider as me, and he had a good day on G-One style dot-treaded 32s. I was on File center 42s [39mm actual]

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by benb

You're getting really close to "keep your current bike and add a MTB" I think. You're within 5mm of a 2.1" MTB tire at that point, and if 44mm is not getting the job done a MTB is probably going to be a heck of a lot better than going up to 48mm on a gravel bike. As soon as you say "the MTB will be too slow on the easy stuff" then you're right back to "why are you on 44s instead of 38s or 35s?"

It all depends on where you want to compromise - I have a local loop that's 12-15 miles of pavement and frost heaved MUT, into about 10 miles of gravel, followed by a mix of 12 miles or so of single & double track back to the house, with options to extend the route on either end with more singletrack. Its a great loop and I've ridden it on everything from a CX bike on 35's to a 140mm FS bike. Every bike sucks for a pretty significant part of the loop but its a really great litmus test for a mixed surface or bikepacking bike or tire.... but this is pretty much threading the needle of the perpetual N+1 issue, getting a setup that works well for that kind of riding.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by benb

You're getting really close to "keep your current bike and add a MTB" I think. You're within 5mm of a 2.1" MTB tire at that point, and if 44mm is not getting the job done a MTB is probably going to be a heck of a lot better than going up to 48mm on a gravel bike. As soon as you say "the MTB will be too slow on the easy stuff" then you're right back to "why are you on 44s instead of 38s or 35s?"

Some of gravel incredulity from people like Jan Heine about deep gravel and MTBs is amusing.. some of those blogs where he remarks that the MTBs hammer right through stuff that's really hard on gravel bikes... well of course, the whole industry has spent the last 40 years optimizing bikes & tires for those situations where a gravel bike or road bike is just not the right thing.

When a MTB is the right tool for a trail section it's going to put a huge grin on your face vs any gravel bike... generally the situations where you're working gingerly not to crash/lose traction on the gravel bike and you could go right ahead and sprint/hammer on the MTB and it's going to stick like glue.

For some riders 4mm can be the difference between pinch flat hell and a fun if slightly jarring ride. In the same way that 5mm can be the difference between a bike that's fun enough on the rough stuff but still doesn't feel sluggish on the road.

Granularity has always been an excellent marketing strategy. Many people engage because it seems dumb, but others buy into the option as better. Most have forgotten debates around 23,24, or 25mm racing tires. But I remember.

[tellyho]

When I use my 650x47 wheels on the gravel bike, it's generally riding singletrack. The 700x42 do everything else just fine.

[retropean]

Sounds like a solution searching for a problem.

[benb]

Originally Posted by .RJ

It all depends on where you want to compromise - I have a local loop that's 12-15 miles of pavement and frost heaved MUT, into about 10 miles of gravel, followed by a mix of 12 miles or so of single & double track back to the house, with options to extend the route on either end with more singletrack. Its a great loop and I've ridden it on everything from a CX bike on 35's to a 140mm FS bike. Every bike sucks for a pretty significant part of the loop but its a really great litmus test for a mixed surface or bikepacking bike or tire.... but this is pretty much threading the needle of the perpetual N+1 issue, getting a setup that works well for that kind of riding.

For sure we're splitting hairs here and it's N+1 but mostly I'm thinking once you get to 44-48mm the gravel bike is giving up so much speed on easy stuff it's losing it's reason to exist vs the MTB. I'm mostly thinking of a fast XC hardtail here.

Gravel bike with 32-35c slick or file tread is rolling much much faster on the smooth easy stuff than the MTB is, but by the time you get to a 44-48mm knobbed tire on the gravel bike most of that speed advantage could be gone, especially if the MTB has the more mature/developed tubeless setup.

It's really dependent on your local terrain for sure. Here we have some hard packed dirt trails where the gravel bike can go quite fast as long as the weather doesn't mess with the trail. If the weather messes with the trail as it does periodically the MTB is faster. And as soon as you get to actual singletrack we have very very little singletrack where the gravel bike has any hope of keeping up. Just the way our ecology is, we kind of jump right from "fireroad/gravel road/groomed hardpack trail" right to "freeride/trail bike is a better choice than an XC bike."

For me really 38c has felt like the point at which the gravel bike is getting pretty slow and starting to lose it's point on pavement and really easy stuff. 35c is kind of my sweet spot.

[NHAero]

I run 26x2.2 Conti Race King file tread tires on my Litespeed Unicoi MTB converted to a dropbar gravel/MX/whatever bike. I do that because I ride a mix of pavement (where it rolls fine) to single track and the one place it matters is the occasional sand trap one finds here on Martha's Vineyard. If it weren't for that particular application I'd be running something like a 44 instead.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by benb

For sure we're splitting hairs here and it's N+1 but mostly I'm thinking once you get to 44-48mm the gravel bike is giving up so much speed on easy stuff it's losing it's reason to exist vs the MTB. I'm mostly thinking of a fast XC hardtail here.

Yep, that's an even finer hair split, drop bar 'fat' tire bike vs flat bar 'skinny' tire bike. Sometimes I miss having a proper XC bike.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Yeah, I don't totally follow this. If you have 44 tires and you often find yourself wishing that you had a slightly bigger tire, go with 48. If you have 44 tires and you are fine with that, stay with 44. It's not like there is some drastically different purpose to 48s versus 44s. It's just about gradations of the surfaces you are riding on, and personal preferences.

This^

If a bigger tire expands the fun factor of the bike you have, then go for it. Riding 700x48 knobbies on my Stigmata was a hoot, on occasion.

Maybe a hardtail would be the right bike, but riding the wrong bike with jumbo tires is a blast sometimes.

[mtechnica]

700x48 is good if you need basically a MTB tire and it's as big as you can fit. Someone I know has a gravel bike that can only fit 48c and she used it for bikepacking, and therefore used 48c. If she could have fit 2.1" she would have. For general "gravel rides" with mixed surfaces they are too big and slow feeling (her words/opinion).

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by benb

When a MTB is the right tool for a trail section it's going to put a huge grin on your face vs any gravel bike... generally the situations where you're working gingerly not to crash/lose traction on the gravel bike and you could go right ahead and sprint/hammer on the MTB and it's going to stick like glue.

This is more or less true and why mountain bikes are better than gravel bikes offroad. On the road though, even the best mountain bikes basically feel bad compared to a drop bar bike IMO. I think the gravel bike with MTB tires, while not ideal, is good enough for the kind of people (like me) that actually only end up riding the MTB a few times a year anyways. If you are really into MTB a gravel bike is not a good substitute.

[sparky33]

this 700x48 set up is as much as it looks

[.RJ]

[theboucher]

I’m having a new drop bar bike built around 700 x 48 knobbies. Primary use will be big days mostly off road, moving fast, carrying minimal gear (frame bag and small handlebar bag).

I’ve found tires this size to be the optimal blend for logging roads and singletrack, which vary a great deal here in the PNW depending on the season. They’re the perfect in between size between a full on mtb tire and faster rolling tires in the 35-40 range which just don’t have enough volume for getting after it on loose and bumpy stuff.

And at the right pressure, they’ll roll just as well as 40s on tarmac.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by theboucher

I’m having a new drop bar bike built around 700 x 48 knobbies

I will be too soon - waiting in the Zukas queue.

What kind of stuff are you looking for in terms of geo, specs, features, mounts, etc? I have some ideas swirling but i'll have to make some decisions soon.