OT: Retirement Total Amount: How Much Do You Think You'll Need?

[Climb01742]

i'll chime in and offer another vote wishing that the SS thread had not been locked. and to ask the mods to please ignore any posts that try to insert politics into this thread.

and i'll add a tangent, if it's ok:

i read recently that warren buffet, when he dies, the estate he'll leave his wife will be structured this way: 90% in index funds and 10% in bonds. so, the arguably world's greatest investor will not entrust his wife's 'nest egg' to other 'investors'. quite a statement, it seems.

i've always done the maximum 401(k) contributions i could at my jobs, but i wish i had done more over the years, and also not made some, in retrospect, totally stupid purchases.

that said, i wish i had done two things since i got my first job:

put 15% of my post-tax income every year into investments. and made those investments in low-cost index funds. saving for retirement, or just for life's twists and turns, should begin early...a lesson i never learned. ouch.

[malcolm]

I'm almost 55, wife is 47 and we are doing ok, just about on track for me to retire between now and 5 years and her in 5-10. At this point her income has eclipsed mine. We started late and have a 13 and 11 year old that college in for the most part locked in. My only advice to younger folks is start early and even though the numbers look daunting face it now and put aside whatever you can, anything invested now is much smaller than what you need to invest in 10 years to be at the same place. You hit a point in your savings for retirement where it really starts to grow fast relatively speaking.

[EDS]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

don't forget the 300k/kid for college unless you want to leave the kid in debt. (FYI, at present run rates, I am probably low)

At least the return on the NY 529 plan has been very good over the past couple years!

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by JasonF

In addition to my job as the general partner of a hedge fund, I oversee a "family office" and provide wealth counseling services to high net worth individuals. I'm an attorney and CFP and have a passion for this kind of stuff.

I break down the proper retirement figure into 2 buckets. The first bucket is the amount of savings you'll need to secure at least a halfway decent retirement and to ensure you're not pushing a shopping cart under an overpass. This should be between 20-25 times your residual living expenses - that is, the yearly shortfall you have to make up after Social Security and any pension. This bucket (portfolio) should be in safe assets: TIPs, annuities, short term bonds. Instruments that have a chance to keep up with inflation but are not subject to market risk. Just to be clear, this bucket is only converted to these "safe" investments when you hit your number. Before then, you need to find the asset allocation that fits your need and ability to take risk but it should/must include equities.

Anything above securing a safe retirement can be invested in risky assets. If you dream about taking an around-the-work trip and the risk portfolio does well, you can do that. If the risk portfolio doesn't do well, at least you're not eating Alpo under that proverbial overpass.

The figures are EXTREMELY daunting for many folks and lifestyle choices can directly threaten a secure retirement. If someone doesn't have a clue as to what the above means to them, I encourage them to take some time and do some budgeting , get an idea of "their number" and then start making course corrections to get in the right direction.

OK, now for the rest of us.

Two million to be comfortable, but, 1.4 could do the trick. That would make for a conservative 55 thousand income (at the 1.4 million number), then add maybe 20 thousand for SS, and you aren't eating pet food. Remember, that 75 thousand doesn't include SS or medicare payments, and the money you would be saving right now for retirement.


I'm planning on keeping my skills sharp, and either working part time and/or opening a small business. That's the fourth leg of the "three legged stool" theory of retirement income that many advise one should work with, which includes a pension, SS, and savings. Working will also keep my mind and spirit alive too, I think. Certainly more alive than this soul sucking cube job I have right now.

Kids at 50? Second or third loan on the house at 50 or even 60? Good luck. You'll never retire. Above figures don't account for that.

These figures are for a single person. Two income DINKs (dual income no kids) have the best chance, if both saved well. Those are the most comfortable people I know.

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

OK, now for the rest of us.

Two million to be comfortable, but, 1.4 could do the trick. That would make for a conservative 55 thousand income (at the 1.4 million number), then add maybe 20 thousand for SS, and you aren't eating pet food. Remember, that 75 thousand doesn't include SS or medicare payments, and the money you would be saving right now for retirement.


I'm planning on keeping my skills sharp, and either working part time and/or opening a small business. That's the fourth leg of the "three legged stool" theory of retirement income that many advise one should work with, which includes a pension, SS, and savings. Working will also keep my mind and spirit alive too, I think. Certainly more alive than this soul sucking cube job I have right now.

Kids at 50? Second or third loan on the house at 50 or even 60? Good luck. You'll never retire. Above figures don't account for that.

These figures are for a single person. Two income DINKs (dual income no kids) have the best chance, if both saved well. Those are the most comfortable people I know.

I'm also thinking roughly a retirement fund million, a liquid million, house paid for, and no large pending obligations like college tuitions.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

that said, i wish i had done two things since i got my first job:

put 15% of my post-tax income every year into investments. and made those investments in low-cost index funds. saving for retirement, or just for life's twists and turns, should begin early...a lesson i never learned. ouch.

yeah, one of those "youth is wasted on the young" moments.

More than once I have seen the same chart, that, if, one started saving at 24 and stopped saving at 40, they would have the same amount at 65, maybe more, than somebody who started saving in their late thirties/early forties.

[54ny77]

Anyone price out assisted living facility costs lately?

Add that to the mix and the picture gets pretty daunting.

Many of us will end up in one at some point.

How to address that one, I dunno. Long term care insurance, I suppose? My fear is that purchasing such a policy today (and paying the premiums for years to come) will one day, years from now, be futile since the ins. co. would possibly fight the claim. Not that ins. co's would ever do such a thing.....

[jds108]

A couple of points from my perspective:

1- regarding tuition, I'm sure other folk's numbers are correct but a good undergrad degree can be had for much less than some of the numbers thrown around. I just looked at resident undergrad tuition for my old school, the University of Utah - $6,700 per year for a full time student. Their all-in estimate for living on campus is $23,500 for a year (i.e. two semesters). Your kid isn't a "resident"? Have them move to Utah and work for a year before enrolling. Viola - they're a resident.

2- I'm going to go the route of rental properties and rental income rather than a 401k, primarily due to my fear of what may happen to the stock market. I have two duplexes which cost just shy of $800k. Four rent checks gets me just shy of $5k/mo gross. Once I have those properties and my own home paid off, I retire.

$5k/mo is plenty for me when I no longer have a mortgage. My biggest expense will be property tax, and that will be about $700/mo for the three properties. Obamacare may not be a great health care solution but I can get coverage in my state for $260/month so I'm not going to the poor house to pay for health care.

So I think I can retire on $800k in real estate income-producing assets.... Come SS age, I start collecting that as well. If/when the time comes that I might need to move into assisted living, I sell one or both of the rentals.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

Anyone price out assisted living facility costs lately?

Please, just kill me. Make it quick and somewhat painless. I watched my Mom waste away in one of those places. Hell on earth.

[tmf]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Please, just kill me. Make it quick and somewhat painless. I watched my Mom waste away in one of those places. Hell on earth.

My plan is to take up "extreme sports" at my final stage. My goal is to stay as healthy as I can to make it possible. I know it doesn't always go as planned, but that's what I'm shooting for.

[thwart]

Two of many 'pearls' in this thread…

live well below your means.

if one started saving at 24 and stopped saving at 40, they would have the same amount at 65, maybe more, than somebody who started saving in their late thirties/early forties.

Don't know if any younger Forum members read these threads (since carbon fiber and/or electronic shifting isn't in the title ), but that second point is HUGE.

[Ahneida Ride]

If current trajectory continues .....

40 years from now ....

gas = 38.80 frn for a gallon
Coffee = 20.00 frn for a cup.
box of donuts = 40 frn

A stop at the Quick mart will cost you 500 frn.


You'll need lot more frn then you think. The private central bank
dilution tax is about 6% per year.

[fuzzalow]

I started this thread but I have to take a backseat on the bulk of it. I am at least 10 years out from first tier retirement age and at least 5 years out from working out any specifics as far as reallocation and re-weighting the retirement account. I am square in the pipe 5 by 5 in equities all in on the growth/accumulation phase.

When I mentioned $1 Million minimum, yes that was referencing net free and clear investment capital. So a net worth of something that included the house of your residence is an inaccurate account in that roster of assets unless its been reverse-mortgaged or the landlord has taken on rental income.

4% income return is indeed very generous in today's investment climate. Corp dividend yield and not bond interest, that's for sure. TINSTAFL. Agree that % return is % return but the inescapable fact is that there has to be a significant enough capital base to work those returns off of to make the investment effect real and actionable as far as monetary results. You need a working capital base. There is truth to that old aphorism that getting to the first million was the hardest part.

You younger forum members, save for retirement - pedal to the metal and never let up! Time is money! For you gentlemen ahead of some of us on this road, your insights are appreciated and thanks.

[saab2000]

I hope at some point to own my 'forever' house outright, where I want to live. I'm not yet sure where that will be but if I own my home my expenses will be low.

Still, I'm saving/investing about 1/3 of my income each year.

Hopefully I'll have enough that I can live off interest/growth alone and not eat into the principal of my assets.

We'll see if this works out. I read a lot on this subject.

Not putting a number out there but I'm doing OK. I wish I had started earlier and I advise everyone I work with to start earlier rather than later.

[54ny77]

So you're all saying that hoarding 10 speed groups is not a path to future riches?

I was hoping my '09 SRAM Red group would be a big collectible, enabling me to sell it and retire in the lifestyle of champagne wishes and caviar dreams.....